As customers are we more demanding ?

[Colonel White]

We havn't had a debate for a while so here goes;

I just thought about this the other day as I have been contacted by a Resin manufacturer who is bringing out a line of 1/72 models. In a nutshell they wanted a wish list and advice from myself and some of the other guys on the Guild Forum. For the German tanks I started adding Zim Paste effect ie A Panther Ausf G with Zimm. For the KV1 type, I requested specifically for the KV1S model . Which is basically a souped go faster KV1 with thinner armour but still adequately armoured and therefore can keep up with T34s etc. The other guys responded in a similar manner wanting specific models as opposed to a generic model that will make do eg a mid war Tiger with Zim .

Which begs the question are we becoming to demanding in asking for more precision ? I think gone are he days in some cases where a T34 of any type would do . Warlord do several types for example .

The same can be said of the soldiers themselves. If an ammo pouch is on the wrong side for example someone will allways point it out. Have we become a nation of rivet counters ?Or is it becasue in real terms we are paying more for our toys than say 30 years ago and therefore we demand the best if we have to pay those prices. I can see this as a failing of BF as they have raised their prices but appeared to have dropped back on the quality.

What do you think?

Over to you guys

[Cubster]

Yes, definitely. In the same way that a 'basic' standard of living seems to include what, 20 years ago, would be extravagant luxuries, I think we as consumers have come to expect more bang for our buck these days and this hobby is no exception.

We're in a Golden Age right now with half a dozen good companies all competing for our attention and I for one am loving the spirit of cooperation and syncronisation that seems to exist between many of them. Instead of head-on collisions we are seeing a lot of dovetailing with ranges, allowing the customer plenty of choice and variety instead of ten versions of the same thing being released each week! Sure there is a choice of specific type in the more popular genres - WW2, Napoleonics etc.. - but it seems this is also driving up quality and value-for-money.

The rise in quality plastics is no bad thing either.

[grant]

I agree with Cubster; the variety of companies out there and doing well enough that Renedra is having a hard time fitting them all in results in angood thing for me, the consumer. I am so spoiled for choice, that I have to pick and choose. And when I do pick, I am very demanding - but I also care less about price if "it's right" - whatever it is. I just don't settle for substandard minis anymore, and aside from the obscene prices of GW, I am happy paying the going rates.

Which isn't to say I don't notice strange discrepancies; the recent Russian gun releases were "out of whack" with similar offerings from Perry. $24 on the American store, and I emailed WG to let them know and the price was out - $19.25 is the new, correct price! Kudos to WG!

[mikeland]

I think when customers are demanding over certain things it can be positive. The more forward thinking companies are harnessing the in-depth knowledge, experience and opinions of their customers. So the demand for quality, accuracy and a good product are all good things helping to create Cubsters 'golden age'.

Where I think we have become too demanding is when we are just being impatient, greedy or unrealistic. The way some people talk about wargames companies you would think they are all charities! Even the likes of Warlord Games are a big concern in the hobby, but not a massive operation in the real world. With hundreds of ranges and thousands of minis there will sometimes be delays, mistakes and accident, and for smaller companies they just don't have the staff or time to churn orders out like amazon. Yes fast efficient service is one thing but to be as demanding and unforgiving as people have become is a shame. (This is evidenced not only in this hobby but everywhere).

I spoke to a customer service person the other day over a delayed order, and they actually thanked me for not having rung up and moaned sooner!

We can all get a little over eager when waiting for new toys, but to be fair if we have to wait a few days longer for our toy soldiers the world wont end...

(Speaking of which I have a WG package full of SAS goodness waiting to be opened for me at home... come on clock, move faster!)

[Invisible officer]

Is there realy a difference between our game material and the "real world" goods? Would you accept other goods with flaws?
Most not. If there is a flaw the customers demands a price reduction. Or he goes to another seller.

And the more expensive something is the more demanding is the paying customer. Our models are no longer the small pocket money simple plastic miniatures from my youth. We pay ten times the price today. But the average salary has not increased so much.

[Parus Ater]

When it comes to demanding variants of things I think it's perhaps manufacturer created as if you can use one pattern as the basis for another set then you will. AFV companies have been doing it for years and seeing them puts the idea into your head to want more.

[clivethecelt]

Right, here goes - put my spoon in and give a good stir ...
I agree with all that's been said about society in general becoming more demanding - though whether the general populace is more discerning is debatable! But returning to the Col's topic and twisting it slightly, I think there's probably a (growing?) gap between the exacting standards of the historical modeller and the historical wargamer. I'm not saying that wargamers would field a Panther in France c 1940, but does the subtle difference between different models significantly influence gameplay? OK, the difference between, say, a KV1 and KV1S or T34/76 or T34/85 does, but whether the infantry have the correct trenching tool in the right place is neither here nor there, IMHO. Yes, the need to have the troops looking "right" is all well and good, but - taking an "ancients" example - would it be an issue (that is, if you're not putting on a demo game at a show) if, say, I were to use a Hoplites from the Persian period for the Peloponnese War? I guess what I'm adding to the question is one of aethetics vs accuracy.
OK, puts tin hat and flak jacket on, and gets behind the sandbags ...

[redben]

I don't think we're more demanding, I think we have more of an opportunity to air our opinions than we ever had before.

[Colonel White]

Clive I agree partly but Military Modelling in the real sense tends to be a different but related hobby . I am obviously biased towards WW2 in general at the moment so I will use this era as an example. The Military Modelling guys for WW2 really do take their modelling /craft really seriously right down to the correct coloured oil stains. Woe betide any manufacturer who brings out a sub stanadard kit as these guys will slaughter them on forums and mags if the kit isn't upto it .

Gamers I don't think are that far behind in their requirements .28mm gamers even being more exacting . Its really a wargaming company that has contacted me as their kits are basically 5 pieces but very pecise and detailed.And they wanted ideas for exact models to produce mainly for the Russian players for BGK . So instead of a generic SU76 .They are producing an early M model and a late M model. For T34s they are producing a 1941 model so it doesn't clash with the PSC T34 1943 model . So I have to say even gamers are getting more demanding or exacting in their hobby.

[Piers]

Depends.


For WW2 I get all bothered if my Germans have M36 tunics on when they should be wearing M40s...



For 1700s, if it has a tricorne on, it looks right to me.

So I have degrees on anal, depending on what period it is...

I think the companies that will do well as gamers become more focussed and wanting more bang for their buck, will be those like Warlord and others, who listen to their consumers and back it up with good service. Those that are honest enough to say "Oops... We got that wrong, but we will do right" will be the ones that survive.

But sometimes I do think we can be a little too anal about our favourite periods...