Bolt Action rules question plus lengthy ramble...

[Spence]

@sirius - yep, definitely looking for a cross over.

Picked up a copy of Operation Squad and it does have points values of a sort. It gives you a handful of pre-pointed squads that can be expanded with points. But doesn't cover the base costs and such for the original squads. In the end unless you are a part-time historian with no job or family to take up time, you are not going to add anything or play a different theater. I would expect more expansions except Warlord is putting out Bolt Action to cover the same era/scale and I can't see them trying to support two competing lines at the same time.

The rules look good though...

[Sirius]

There are plenty of additional lists on the Operation Squad forum http://operationsquad.forumfree.it/- mostly official, and quite a few fan-generated.

Its pretty easy to rustle up lists for whatever theatre or era you are keen to play.... its a great game "engine" for small games and is very adaptable. Some Belgian gamers have adapted it to WW1 for example... the link is on the forum site. (I have vague plans to use it for Cape Wars, Boer Wars and AZW skirmishes - it just needs some thinking about orders for mounted troops, and some tweaks to the melee rules to emphasise the variety of hand-to-hand weapons. )

I agree that Warlord are very unlikely to support both Bolt Action and Operation Squad, and Bolt Action will have the benefit of support from two (relatively, in gaming terms) large organisations in Osprey and Warlord, so should have a better chance of gaining solid support from gamers.

[canadasteve]

Op Squad is good but I find it bogs down and goes slowly at times because of the mechanic of action/reaction. With BA you are going to get a much faster game with an easier mechanic. Also what are those OS rules for tanks all about ?? That just makes the game slower I feel. Its still a great game and was the first to try and take away from the you go I go style of play. BA has got its own style of who goes when and it works very well allowing for the vagaries of war very well.

[Sirius]

Op Squad is good but I find it bogs down and goes slowly at times because of the mechanic of action/reaction. With BA you are going to get a much faster game with an easier mechanic.....

Cool... Tell us about it then? How is it gonna work? I am dead keen to hear or see what iteration of a reaction system BA will employ. Many games released in the last few years have some sort of core reaction element: Force on Force & Tomorrow's War, Infinity, NUTS, Operation WW2 (which predates OpSquad by some years but has its own, interesting priority system). OpSquad is part of a solid trend, really, and I hope BA has a reaction system at its heart, rather than an adaption of an old school i-go-you-go-make-tea turn sequence...

I certainly dont think OpSquad bogs down very often, especially if both players have the tactical nuances sorted. Its single opposed roll for hit/wound/save gets away from lots of multiple rolls, and makes the game faster than most. It might not be to everyone's tastes, especially those more familiar with the GW hit-wound-save orthodoxy, but I like it enough to want to keep playing it, and using the engine for other eras. I understand that it has weaknesses, and that other systems have merit, but there are so many skirmish rulesets out there I think it boils down to what individuals want out of a game, and if they enjoy it enough they can live with, or adapt away, the limitations.

[canadasteve]

As mentioned in other posts the basics of the game revolves around pulling order dice out of a bag, hence a random element as to who goes and then issueing one of your squads an order with that die. Its as simple as that really for the basics. There are obviously more rules for weapons vehicles etc but as the great man, Sir Rick, says think of 40k 2nd edt. for WWII and with no big too hit or would tables.

There is nowt wrong with Op Squad, I just find the game, for what is in effect a small one squad vs one squad game to be quite lengthy, also I cant stand rules that have been translated badly and then dont read very well.

[Sirius]

As mentioned in other posts the basics of the game revolves around pulling order dice out of a bag, hence a random element as to who goes and then issueing one of your squads an order with that die. Its as simple as that really for the basics. There are obviously more rules for weapons vehicles etc but as the great man, Sir Rick, says think of 40k 2nd edt. for WWII and with no big too hit or would tables.

Thanks CanadaSteve. So where does the reaction element come in? I understand that one of the orders is "ambush", which would suggest some sort of overwatch function, or delayed activation, but how does the success or failure of that ambush order get determined? Or can all opposing units react to an activation (ala Force on Force or Infinity)? If a unit acts/reacts, can they still be assigned another order, or is their activation done for round?

Just out of interest, do dice go back into the bag immediately, keeping the same odds for every activation, and dispensing with the traditional idea of a "round". Or do you work through all the dice in the bag and then replenish? (Ie does every unit get to activate in a "round") Or can certain units activate as many times as dice/orders are available (ala Infinity or Point Blank)?

The 40K reference is lost on me, i am afraid, as i have never played any edition of it...

[phoenixman]

hi

some club members and i have been play-testing the upcoming BA rules for Warlord and they are great!

IMHO they are not like BP or HC but are a stand alone set of rules, and until i played these had never found a set of WW2 rules i wanted to play. i tried ROE and operation squad but didn't like either of those to be honest but BA has gone down so well at our club we are already looking at starting a campaign very shortly and we have 7 or 8 core players now from our play testing experience.

coupled with the miniatures range from Warlord i can see these only going from strength to strength for years to come.

if anyone is going to Derby in October we wil be running a bolt Action game there, and will also be using the rules at the Kelmarsh Festival of History weekend event in July, along with other games and periods.

Warlord will also be at Kelmarsh again and please check it out at the English Heritage website.

[grant]

Sounds fantastic!

[phoenixman]

if you are refering to the festival it is, i thoroughly recommend it to anyone.

loads of re-enactments, displays, traders (non wargaming) as well as living history stuff plus a massive wargames marquee.

[canadasteve]

The game is done in rounds and each die that is pulled is left with the unit that is chosen for activation. For ambush think 40k Overwatch.

As Pheonix said its a great game and the best WWII rules I have played so far. We have also been play testing it and have demo'ed at Salute for Warlord and shall be at Broadside next month to do it again, so get down if you fancy a game.