Dark Age wargaming

[Lucius Vorenus]

Hi all!

I would like your opinions on some wargaming in the Age of the Vikings and the Age of Arthur.

Basically I am looking for a small to medium size gaming system, with 10-50 28mm models per side. My plan is to have a Viking and an Irish force to do battle.

Rules-wise we SAGA for skirmishes and Dux Bellorum for midlevel gaming. The Hail Caesar expansions also cover this period but the size of games are too big for what I'm looking for.

SAGA looks interesting but they have yet to release an Irish list, although I have seen people use the Welsh as a substitute.
Dux Bellorum looks quite good, with all the lists you need in one book, including Irish, and it's as cheap as chips!

Also, if we want to go vintage we also have WAB Shieldwall. An advantage in this is the large number of army lists in a single book, including a number of Norse and Irish lists. Downside is WH is dead!

Note I don't own any of these rules, this is just what I have gleaned from reading reviews and summaries etc.

What are people's views on these rulesets, or others?

Cheers!

[Cubster]

'Clash of Empires' (for the basic ruleset) and 'Age of Ravens' expansion (for specific Dark Ages stuff). It's heavily based on WAB, but with some of the pet peeves ironed out.

Plus you get a free model with the expansion thing if you order direct from 'Great Escape Games', which some absolute genius painted a while back.

[Lucius Vorenus]

Thanks for that Cubster.

I had seen Age of Ravens too, how does it work for smaller games, rather than full 100+ models per side? Oh and do you need the original CoE rulebook or is it standalone?

Nice range of lists to choose from too!

[Cubster]

I reckon 'Clash of Empires' was specifically designed as a skirmish game that can also be expanded up to larger scale actions (exactly like WAB), in the same way that 'Hail Caesar' was designed for larger scale games, but can also be scaled down to skirmish stuff. I've yet to play it, but that's certainly my impression from everything I've seen, battle reports and the like.

'Age of Ravens' is just a source book really, with 34 Dark Age specific army lists and ideas, so you will need the 'Clash of Empires' book to play, which ostensibly covers Biblical up to Wars of the Roses. I guess in that case you don't really need the 'Age of Ravens' book, but of course it depends on what you're happy to spend. There are also a fair few free army lists on the GEG website (72 as of today) and more go on all the time.

[janner]

I reckon 'Clash of Empires' was specifically designed as a skirmish game that can also be expanded up to larger scale actions (exactly like WAB), in the same way that 'Hail Caesar' was designed for larger scale games, but can also be scaled down to skirmish stuff. I've yet to play it, but that's certainly my impression from everything I've seen, battle reports and the like.

'Age of Ravens' is just a source book really, with 34 Dark Age specific army lists and ideas, so you will need the 'Clash of Empires' book to play, which ostensibly covers Biblical up to Wars of the Roses. I guess in that case you don't really need the 'Age of Ravens' book, but of course it depends on what you're happy to spend. There are also a fair few free army lists on the GEG website (72 as of today) and more go on all the time.

To add to Cubster's great advice, I would go with CoE for mid level games (much like WAB), but try Dux Britannarium or SAGA for a skirmish game. As the Cubster writes, once you have the main CoE rules, there is enough online to get going, but you might invest in Age of Ravens once you've decided they suit you as there's lots of extra goodness in the book (such as new commander traits).

I think Dux Britannarium and SAGA are really your best bet for skirmish games. In my opinion Dux Bellorum are also meant for mid level games rather than skirmishes. There are some great AARs on this blog for the two sets of Dux rules (although nothing on SAGA): http://dalauppror.blogspot.dk/2012/09/dux-britanniarum-aar-vikings-vs-anglo.html

Nothing on CoE there yet, but I know that Michael is play testing some of the draft lists for the Crusades supplement so may be hesitant to put anything out there.

Regards,

[Colonel White]

Believe me WAB isn't dead . Our club is a staunch WAB club. Believe me I have tried without success to get the guys on one of the "Successor" rules lists . Luckily we have a high number of Wab2 rules books between us and I managed to save the Erratas before WHH closed them down. We have also around 10 copies of the Armies of Antiquity between us and therefore we can assist any newbie in the club. Longer term I think its a case of when rather than if, when we move over to either Clash oF Empires or the other ruleset done by Rob Broom. The beauty of the successor rules is that they all use WAB basing requirements which will make the transition easier. WAB2 doesn't need any further additions as everything was covered before WHH closed it down.

So no I don't think WAB is dead far from it and is still very well supported by the WAB community on the WAB forum .

As regards SAGA yes I am looking to do this in the medium term using WAB based miniatures .

Age of Ravens is also worth getting even if you are not playing COE as it does give good ideas for lists which could be adopted for the likes of WAB and very nice Eyte Candy.

[pogo]

War & Conquest aka WAC (as opposed to WAB)

ALex

[Colonel White]

Yes thats it War and Conquest.

It seems to be lagging behind compared to COE who have now I think 2 supplement books out .

[Cubster]

It seems to be lagging behind compared to COE who have now I think 2 supplement books out .

... at the moment.

[Colonel White]

Having spoken to Rob Broom at the Derby show on showing me some of the mechanics , I like this game more now . A lot of the Army lists are available free on PDFs at the moment and also some Posh PDFs as well. Books will follow in time so Rob told me. I do like the idea of the General being a General and not a super human hero ( Marvel comics cover this area well) and allowances have been made to allow Viking leaders to fight in battle should you choose to do so which I suppose is more in character with Vikings.

I have been warned though I will need a lot of dice

So yes I think these rules do have a lot more going for them

I would really love to give this game a try but the problem is trying to persuade my other club members who are I have to say are WAB finatics .