Fortifications and points costs

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  • May 9, 2019 at 10:32 pm #161529
    Enquiring_Mind
    Participant

    I’ve been playing a number of Bolt Action games using the Fortress Budapest theatre books with a friend of mine.

    We’re looking at running a few games around the Soviet attacks on the Hungarian Atilla line and the other similar fortifications around Hungary. From the little I’ve been able to ascertain was that they were mainly field fortifications, which means trenches, log bunkers etc…

    We were hoping to point things up for these so we can use them in a similar fashion to how fortifications are used in Operation Sealion. I.e. buy them as part of your theatre selector.

    I can find rules for being dug in (i.e. trenches and foxholes) in various places. I can find rules for log bunkers (page 14 of the Road to Berlin Book).

    The trouble is I can’t find points for either of them. Have I missed something or are they considered to be scenario specific?

    Thanks in advance for the help.

    May 11, 2019 at 11:33 am #161615
    Paul Nettle
    Participant

    From SEA LION the points are:

    Pillbox 55 points (up to 8 men; 1 weapon from each port; counts as a bunker)

    Road Block 10 points

    Dragons Teeth 10 points per 8″

    Barbed Wire 10 points per 8″

    Ditches 10 points per 8″ and 1″ width.

    I am pretty sure that Trenches are 10 points per 8″ too, and Minefields 50 points for 6″ by 6″ square, but I cant find the reference.

    Incidently, in my club we read the minefield rules as one die is rolled for each member of the unit within the 6″ by 6″ minefield; otherwise the rules don’t make sense.

    I hope this helps.

    May 13, 2019 at 9:53 pm #161674
    Enquiring_Mind
    Participant

    Hi Paul,
    thanks for the reply, those were the same points values I’ve found. The trouble is that according to the ‘Road to Berlin’ book a log bunker is poorer than a concrete one.
    -3 penalty to hit soldiers inside it vs a -4 for the concrete one.
    It also collapses after taking 10 hits from a single HE weapon as opposed to 12. I was hoping that there might be some sort of points for this reduced quality fortification somewhere.

    Just out of interest here’s some really interesting websites that I’ve recently found, they’ve all got details of various fortifications that could act as inspiration.

    Mapa strony

    http://www.regelbau.dk/regelbau_allemodeller.asp
    http://allworldwars.com/German%20Field%20Fortifications%20on%20the%20Eastern%20Front.html
    http://www.lignemaginot.com/accueil/indexen.htm

    Unless your Danish, German, Polish and French is up to scratch I recomend putting most of these through Google Translate 🙂 Each site has got a variety of interesting plans and photos of WW2 fortifications.
    Enjoy!

    May 14, 2019 at 10:57 pm #161715
    Highlander
    Participant

    Thank goodness for this topic.

    Other than the two examples cited above, are there any overall rules for points for field fortifications? I ask because I have experienced a BA scenario designer who seems to be making up his own rules for fortifications and, as far as I can tell, is adding them for free … they cost no points.

    Which means that attacking his fortified lines is more like going over the top in WWI than a WWII battle. It is discouraging.

    May 15, 2019 at 3:27 am #161719
    Stuart Harrison
    Participant

    “Incidently, in my club we read the minefield rules as one die is rolled for each member of the unit within the 6″ by 6″ minefield; otherwise the rules don’t make sense.”

    Which version of the rules are you reading for them not to make sense?

    Looking at the ones in Ostfront (p106, Effect of Mines) for example, if your unit advances through a minefield you roll “…one die to see if the unit triggers a mine, effectively rolling to hit the unit with the minefield itself.” As written, crossing a minefield at an advance is a calculated risk. Wouldn’t rolling per man would make it near certain death?

    If you run, you triple the risk with three dice instead of one – apply that per man and you turn high risk into throwing a unit away.

    May 17, 2019 at 7:42 pm #161908
    Paul Nettle
    Participant

    Well, the way the rules are written seems unclear.

    The rule says that if a unit enters the minefield then you roll a single die to see if the minefield is triggered. Or three dice if the unit ran. But usually just the one die.

    It then later says: “If the minefild misses with all of its dice” – note the plural – or if “the minefield scores hits, then each successful hit is resolved” again plural.

    So the way the rule is written, you role one die – and if it hits, resolve one hit against a single man in the unit. Or possibly three hits against three men if the unit ran.

    It seems more sensible to roll one die per man in the minefield, and only those that are “hit” have hits resolved.

    Yes, it does make it harder to get the whole unit through unscathed, but then it is a 6″ by 6″ minefield! So it seems one or two might get hit on the balance of probability.

    It is easier for engineers, of course, but then it should be.

    May 18, 2019 at 4:14 am #161911
    Stuart Harrison
    Participant

    “So it seems one or two might get hit on the balance of probability.”

    My point exactly – as it’s written, there’s a chance that 1 will be hit on an advance, and up to three may be hit on a run.

    Your way, a unit of 12 advancing will average 8, 6, or 4 hits depending on experience. If they’re mad enough to run with 3 dice per man that’s 24, 18, or 12 hits – it moves from a calculated risk to a simple way to throw away a unit.

    If you want to increase the effect a little, I would suggest requiring a morale check to continue the move after taking a hit – fail and you’re stuck there until next turn plus you have to risk it again to move on.

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