Avoiding a push back, and sub units in a charge

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  • August 15, 2019 at 9:38 am #166893
    arcole
    Participant

    Played a game the other day, and something happened which I think needs clarifying.

    First, we have a elephant unit, with a sub unit. The sub unit is in close order and immeadiately in front of the elepant unit. Can the elephant delcare a charge? We played that it could as the order roll allowed for 3 moves, so allowed the sub unit to go into open order so the elephant could pass through, then followed up behind the elephant to support it.

    Next, the elephant was victorious and broke its opponent. The support for than unit have to fall back disordered. Just behind it was a unit of light cavalry in open order. They have to move out of the way, so opted to make a small move to the side then advanced down the side of the elephant and ended up in a position where they would be able to charge the sub unit in their next turn. Was this correct, or should the cavalry have moved in a different direction.

    Note, as a result of this the cavalry were able to attack and break the sub unit, but the elephant made a superb sweeping advance, and ended up destroyed another 2 units.

    • This topic was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by arcole.
    August 15, 2019 at 11:35 am #166905
    Big Al
    Participant

    Nope! First of all, the unit that was pushed back is destroyed if the intervening friendly unit refuses to give way. If the intervening unit does give way, it must test to see if it becomes disordered (a roll of 1, w or 3). If the retreating unit is a supporting unit, it retreats as far as it can and becomes disordered. There is no requirement for an intervening friendly unit to move out of the way of a retiring supporting unit.
    There is no way that the light cavalry can move out of the way of a retreating unit to a point where it then finds itself in a position of advantage against the enemy that has caused that retreat. Instead it would move back in the same way as the retiring unit.
    In other words, you can’t move the light cavalry forwards, which is the only way that it could possibly “slide” down the flank of the advancing elephant while moving out of the way of a retreating friendly unit. Besides, the proximity rule would prevent it as the cavalry are already facing an enemy unit, to say nothing of the “cheesiness” or “gameyness” of the move!

    August 15, 2019 at 11:42 am #166910
    Big Al
    Participant

    One more thing (because I didn’t read the last paragraph), how did the elephant get to make the Sweeping Advance/charge when the sub unit was defeated?

    August 15, 2019 at 7:16 pm #166961
    arcole
    Participant

    Our assumption was that the sub-unit has an obligation to try and stay in range of its parent unit, but the parent unit can do what it wants.

    the actual sequence was:
    1) that the elephant charges 2 elephants and a supporting light infantry unit. (could he given the placement and formation of the sub-unit noted in the original post?). He won and pushed the enemy back. Cavalry move out of the way. My understanding of the proximity rule suggests that the cavaly are not effected by the elephant as it was still in contact with and fighting the original enemy, and get a normal move to get out of the way. Is it the intetntion that units doing this should move sideways or backwards if at all possible?

    2) Cavalry charge the sub unit, and push it back. Elephant breaks its opponent, whose supports are forced to fall back disorganised, so elephant does a sweeping advance. and routes the next light foot unit. Elephant uses its victory move to fave the second elephant.

    3. Cavalry break the sub unit, whilst the elephant recovers.

    4. Elephant charges the other elephant in the flank.

    August 16, 2019 at 12:39 pm #167002
    Big Al
    Participant

    The Proximity Rule takes effect regardless of whether an enemy is engaged or not. If an enemy is within 12 inches the rule must be obeyed. Remember that it is only obeyed if you are going to move the affected unit and the unit does not necessarily have to face the enemy that triggers the rule, but as soon as it faces an enemy it must stay facing that enemy. That means that you can’t turn the unit past one enemy in order to face another.
    By the way, I trust that you tested the defeated elephants for stampede? Defeated elephants stampede on a roll of 1.

    Units moving out of the way usually move to where there is room, but the Proximity Rule May also apply, in which case it cannot move sideways.
    Now, assuming that the cavalry ends up where you have said, as the cavalry is in Open Order, it cannot charge a closed Order formation, which is what the supporting infantry was. That means that an order with a low enough roll to gain at least two moves would be required – one to change to closed order and the second to charge.
    Then, you would split the supporting unit from the elephant as a separate combat. If you did that and the cavalry won, you have to work out the result and break test before moving onto the elephant. Depending on where the sub unit is positioned – rear of elephant, (it can be pushed back but cavalry may not be able to pursue without contacting the elephant) or if in the flank of the elephant, the sub unit is destroyed (can’t move back through engaged unit) and cavalry has the option to sweep into the elephant, which would affect the result of it’s combat.

    Overall, I am not convinced that you could have done it because of the Proximity Rule and even if you could, there is the issue of the cavalry being in Open Order.

    August 16, 2019 at 7:26 pm #167040
    arcole
    Participant

    Hi Al,

    Sorry to be a bit slow here, but I want to make sure I understand this.

    No part of the Elephant was in front of the “centre front” of the cavalry unit. Gon by that I understand that the “12 inch rule” did not apply. It would then fall through to the secondary proximity rule (if in close order – which they were not!). As they were in open order then they would be bound by the rule stating that they are effected by any enemy within 6 inches of any part of the unt, and presumably irrespective of facing.

    August 17, 2019 at 8:37 am #167051
    Big Al
    Participant

    Yes, that’s right. But they can only move back or sideways to get out of the way of the retreating unit. Moving forwards would be moving into the retreating unit, not making way.
    However, as I said, whilst in Open Order, they cannot charge a formed or closed order unit. They would require an order for that as it would need two moves.

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