Plug Bayonets Question

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  • January 23, 2021 at 4:03 am #183827
    George
    Participant

    Hello,

    Question, I’m looking at the rules in Last Argument of Kings for plug bayonets. I understand that in the War of the Spanish Succession (which I’m building my army for) used socket bayonets? Were they introduced before or during this war? Would the plug bayonet rules work for this conflict or for earlier wars of the late 17th century? Please advise

    January 23, 2021 at 4:13 am #183828
    George
    Participant

    Never mind. found the answer to my question. French started to use them in 1703 and British used them under Marlborough. Now if I can only figure out how to delete my own post?

    January 23, 2021 at 8:58 am #183830
    Charge The Guns
    Participant

    Hi George – I think that only the admins can delete posts.  It was a great question and I’m sure the answer will be useful for others in the future so probably worth letting it stand.

    January 23, 2021 at 9:19 am #183831
    invisible officer
    Participant

    Well, 1703 is a bit late for French introduction.

    Vauban had advocated a plug bayonet as early as 1669 and the first French line infantry regiments got it 1689. The Fusiliers du Roi had no pikes since creation 1672, being armed with flintlocks as artillery guards. No burning matches for a unit that guarded the artillery  Boooom…….

    But the pike was still used by many regiments, the date 1703 is not intro of the plug bayonet but the 1. October 1703 order was to the French Swiss units that had been the last to still carry pikes.

     

    Vauban also wanted the socket bayonett since 1687 but Louis XIV was old fashioned. And filthy.

    The matchlock too lived long among the French, the last are ordered out of regular units service 15th december 1699.

     

     

    January 23, 2021 at 12:46 pm #183833
    Garry Wills
    Participant

    IO – I know nothing about this thread but I am interested in clarifying the posts. George said that the French introduced socket bayonets in 1703, are you saying that the socket bayonet was introduced earlier in France? Secondly LAOK has plug bayonets as being not removable in action, is this backed up by the literature?

    Thanks

    Garry

    Garry

    January 23, 2021 at 5:26 pm #183834
    George
    Participant

    That’s correct. Plug bayonets had there handle ends shoved up the gun barrels with the blades sticking out so they were hard to dislodge once inserted. Hurt the English when fighting the Scots at the battle of Killiecrankie. The Scots got up close to the English. The English tried to insert their plug bayonets but couldn’t get them inserted in time. The Scots with their, axes, swords, and claymores kicked their butts. It is said that the English commander switched to socket bayonets after this incident.

    Invisible officer is correct. The socket bayonet did exist before 1703. However, I don’t think it became widespread until after 17oo with the War of Spanish Succession. I would like to know how widespread and when the change was made.

    January 23, 2021 at 7:08 pm #183835
    invisible officer
    Participant

    The sources are vague, not ever stating the type. We know that some units used plug and socket ones at same time. From 1692 we have no more invoices stating plug ones. So……

    The pike advocats died slowly, the Swiss French units using both types of bayonet and pike together until 1703.

     

    Many went again for swine feathers, so Russia in 1704. Short use in most countries. But sometimes returning in some units until 19th centurs.

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