BP2 – clear shot

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  • July 25, 2022 at 3:08 pm #188003
    East Norfolks
    Participant

    Hi all

    Is my reasoning for a clear shot correct (see attached pic)?

    1. Is there a clear line of sight from the centre of the red unit frontage to any point on the blue unit?  YES
    2. Is blue unit is in range?  YES
    3. Is the blue unit the nearest clear target? YES
    4. Can at least half of the blue unit be seen from the centre of the red unit’s frontage? YES
    5. Is the red unit shooting through either no gap or one wider than its own frontage? YES
    6. Is the blue unit wholly within the red unit’s Field of Fire (front quarter measured at 45 degrees from front corners)? YES

    <u>Result = clear shot</u>

    Attachments:

    1. BP2-pic1.pdf

    July 26, 2022 at 7:34 am #188011
    Charge The Guns
    Participant

    Hi East,

    I don’t agree with your point 5.  The shooter’s frontage is obscured, so the whole unit can not see part of blue. In this case, I would restrict the number of the red unit’s shooting dice, and may be add a -1 not clear factor.

    July 26, 2022 at 12:40 pm #188013
    East Norfolks
    Participant

    Many thanks for the reply CTG.

    Whilst I think your point makes a lot of common sense, I always struggle with this scenario as it is not what the main BP2 rules actually say.

    P45 states “a unit’s ability to see is always judged from the centre of the unit’s front rank” and the diagram at the bottom of P47 says the shot is only “not clear” when “less than half of the enemy unit is visible”, which doesn’t apply here i.e. the red unit can see more than half of blue when measured from the centre of its front rank.

    Am I misunderstanding the rules or is this more a case of common sense should prevail?

    Thanks

    July 26, 2022 at 1:51 pm #188014
    Charge The Guns
    Participant

    Hi East,

    I think this situation needs to be considered ‘a gap’ and so top of p48 needs to be applied (also last of the ‘not clear’ explanation boxes).  The key bit for me is that the unit is trying to shoot through less than its own frontage.

    Our club tends to drop the number of shooting dice in this situation, with such a significant ‘masking’, but this is a club agreed amendment rather than being in the rules.

    July 26, 2022 at 2:34 pm #188015
    East Norfolks
    Participant

    Thanks CTG – very helpful.  I wish the rules were clearer on these types of situations but your house rule does seem a sensible solution.

    July 26, 2022 at 2:53 pm #188016
    Charge The Guns
    Participant

    Yes, perhaps an additional explanation box in the ‘clear shot’ section would help.  Your example is not overly obscure so it would be good to call it out.

    To be honest, I’m not sure we are always consistent on how we deal with this situation game to game, but as long as both sides are happy on the day, and it seems reasonable, then it all comes under the “crack on with it” principal 😀.

    October 21, 2022 at 12:22 pm #188361
    Garry Wills
    Participant

    Just seen this. The maths is interesting for nerds like me. If it is an clear shot the unit fires 3 dice getting an average of 1.5 hits (on 4+), an unclear shot gives it 1 hit (on 5+), if you reduce dice to two dice with a clear shot it gets 1 hit. To be extra nerdy, probably only 1 dice has a clear shot and 1 dice an unclear shot which gives 0.5 plus 0.33 hits or 0.83 hits. So in conclusion counting the target as an unclear target on the grounds that the leader can’t actually see all of the target unit, is as good as any, unless you go hardcore and give the firing unit only the one dice that has the clear shot.

    This is another example of when the words in the rules per se are not helped by the examples.

     

    Garry

    October 28, 2022 at 4:30 pm #188388
    East Norfolks
    Participant

    Thanks for the reply as always Garry but I’m even more confused now!

    I follow the maths but I’m not sure what your final interpretation of the rules is?  What would you do in this situtation?

    I really like BP2 and try not to get too bogged down by the technicalities (although I clearly fail on this sometimes) but I really wish these situations were more precisely worded – positioning units giving and/or receiving fire is a fairly fundamental part of the game!  I think it is one of those situations where more detail is certainly helpful and not overload.  Perhaps in an appendix with a clear diagrams and detailed explanations of a variety of situations…

    October 28, 2022 at 5:02 pm #188389
    Garry Wills
    Participant

    OK yes understood. Your interpretation of the rules is correct according to the rules as written which determine it as a clear target because the leader model at the centre of the firing unit can see more that half of the target unit’s frontage.

    The leader model is used for determining visibility to speed up the game, but in this example it clearly doesn’t work. For me, because almost half the firing unit clearly cannot see the target and therefore it is an unclear target. Now the example boxes use a more than half visible metric for judging this, but your photo shows how difficult that can be, and for it to be a clear shot can’t be right. The point of my previous post was to point out that defining as an unclear target was similar in effect to reducing the dice that can fire. Sometimes common sense has to prevail.

     

    All the best

    Garry

    October 28, 2022 at 6:51 pm #188390
    East Norfolks
    Participant

    Thanks Garry – yes what you (and CTG) say all makes a lot of common sense. Will have to think through my house rules a bit further…

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