LuftFaust – Fliegerfaust Proposals

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  • April 12, 2023 at 3:01 pm #188971
    Eric T Holmes
    Participant

    Gentle Beings,

    I’d like to propose an entry, based on historical data more than gameplay, for the “Luftfaust” AKA “Fliegerfaust.”

    Fliegerfaust  (lit. “pilot’s fist”, “plane fist”, or “aviator’s fist”), also known as the “Luftfaust” (lit. “air fist”), was a German prototype of an unguided, man-portable, multi-barreled ground-to-air rocket launcher, designed to destroy enemy ground attack planes.  3 versions were created:  A, B, and C.  A and B used 20mm rocket-propelled shells.  C version used 30mm rocket-propelled shells.  There is photographic evidence that these were deployed in Berlin by the end of the war.  May have been used against ground targets. (Points = Panzerfaust (5pts) x # shots)

    Only one per squad is allowed.

     

    Version B (45pts):  9-barrelled 20mm rocket shells – projected range 500m, effective 150m

     

    TYPE              RANGE          SHOTS PEN   SPECIAL RULES                              PINS

    Fliegerfaust     24″                   9            +2      Flak, Man portable, Single Use          D2/hit (HE 1”)

    # of Hits = 1D3+2 hits versus ground units (3 – 5 hits), roll to Hit

     

     

    Version C (30pts):  6-barrelled 30mm rocket shells – projected range 500m, effective 150m

     

    TYPE              RANGE          SHOTS PEN   SPECIAL RULES                              PINS

    Fliegerfaust     24″                   6            +3      Flak, Man portable, Single Use          D2/hit (HE 1”)

    # of Hits = 1D6 – 1 hits versus ground units (1 – 5 hits), roll to Hit

     

    Link to building the replica … https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/fliegerfaust/46796/51

    Link to replica fire test …. https://youtu.be/5fskM6iUSbA

    Link to museum data and photos … https://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/luftfaust.html

    And some more fliegerfaust fun … https://www.armedconflicts.com/protiletadlovy-rucni-raketomet-t12543

    As always, constructive criticism is always appreciated.

    April 12, 2023 at 3:56 pm #188972
    Nat
    Participant

    have you looked at the fall of berlin stuff?

    think theres something in there about this

    EDIT – yep pg 28 of the Errata, has get you by rules for the LuftFaust for the Last Levy: Deence of Berlin boxed set.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by Nat.
    April 13, 2023 at 1:35 am #188977
    Stuart Harrison
    Participant

    Besides the fact there are already rules for this as pointed out by Nat, there are a lot of incorrect assumptions in this, and misunderstandings of the rules.

    Having one shot from 9 barrels should not equate to 9 times the chance to hit – that makes it more firepower than a full burst from a flakvierling (which only gives you 8 shots) – I’d say the errata treats it right as a one shot light automatic cannon, equating to a single burst of fire from one barrel.

    You have it listed with both a pen value (+2 or +3 depending on variant) and a HE value – it’s one or the other, same as with an anti tank gun.

    Under pins, you have ‘D2/hit (HE 1”)’ – multiple HE hits only cause a single lot of pins, not one lot per hit. P70, Weapons, Weapon Special Rules, HE (High Explosive), Multiple HE Hits.

    Your last line of each entry is simply confusing ‘# of Hits = 1D3+2 hits versus ground units (3 – 5 hits), roll to Hit’ and ‘# of Hits = 1D6 – 1 hits versus ground units (1 – 5 hits), roll to Hit’. There are already rules for the effect of HE hits dependent on the template size, why create an unnecessary difference? Also, 1D6-1 is 0 to 5 hits, not 1 to 5 hits, creating the possibility of ‘a hit that causes no hits’.

    Is the ‘1D3+2’ per hit out of your 9 shots, in which case it’s vastly overpowered for single 20mm projectiles, or is it if ANY hits are scored? Same for the ‘1D6 – 1 hits versus ground units (1 – 5 hits)’.

    April 20, 2023 at 11:39 am #189021
    invisible officer
    Participant

    The nine barrels of Fliegerfaust B produced a shotgun effect. At 500 m it was a 60 m circle.  So one can expect just one or two  its. And the expected 500 m range was never reached with the pre series front trial weapons.The circle  was reported as 10% of range, so 10 m at 100 m.

    Around Saarbrücken a few of the front test series got used but scored no hits. The reports never reached the Waffenamt.

     

    In may 45 some had been in Berlin, there is no report of any hits. Only proof for being there are pics taken at the door of famous Adlon Hotel, showing three fired Fliegerfäuste.

     

    A C version did not exist, there was a weapon for 3 cm but that never made it from the drawing board.

     

     

    In preparation of the Berlin rules the BA makers asked a professional military history scientist that had access to the German archives and spoke with many 45 witnesses for an exhibition about the Berlin fightsin 1995. He was able to assure thewriters that there was not a single plane damaged or shot down by that thing.

     

     

    October 13, 2023 at 3:25 am #189524
    L.T. Russell
    Participant

    IIRC, there are now rules for this in Konflikt 47, in the Defiance expansion….

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