[RKHaryett]

After further searching I found the passage I was referring to in CoE. Basically, if a unit in line is flanked by and touching assault columns on both flanks it does not need to form square if both columns successfully form square. In this circumstance, the columns do not have to be the target of the charge to form square. If the line is targeted by a cavalry charge, the columns may attempt to form square and if successful, the line will issue Closing Fire. This differs from my initial query.

However, if the cavalry elected to charge one of the columns forcing it into square and overlapped the line I would have thought the line could provide Closing Fire in much the same way as the unit in the example with the artillery being charged. I appreciate that is not the rule but seems to me that the amount of overlap should determine whether a unit can deliver Closing Fire. The Attacker has plenty of opportunity to avoid this occurrence simply by changing formation prior to charging and should, in my view, be punished for failing to do so. Just my thoughts. May have to consider some sort of house rule based on amount of overlap.

Just my thoughts. Regardless, a fun set of rules that I will continue to use for all my horse and musket games.

Kent

[RKHaryett]

The Supplements can certainly make rules queries slightly more problematic. I will continue to look for passages regarding l’ordre mixte and perhaps repost my question if the answer is not apparent.

A follow up to your last response. The unit forming square can’t deliver Closing Fire on the charging cavalry but can it deliver Closing Fire if charged by a second unit?

With respect to the cossacks, you make the same argument as I did. Perhaps we are giving too much credit to them…lol…Really, I shouldn’t complain as they are much easier to deal with if they can only skirmish.

Our Battle of the Berezina continues this weekend. We are third of our way through the combined game and the Russians have yet to put much pressure on the French holding the West bank. The Russians on the East bank are due to arrive next turn as are the French stragglers so it will be an interesting finale. Hopefully the Russians will continue to have difficulties deploying and bringing their superior numbers to bear.

Cheers,
Kent

[RKHaryett]

Thank you for your response Big Al. As always your views are much appreciated.

I take no issue with much of what your wrote but I’m positive that I read somewhere in the rules or CoE that units in l’ordre mixte, a line with both flanks anchored on an assault columns, was treated differently. I’ll be darned if I can find the passage I’m referring to today and I’ve looked through BP2 and CoE. The jist of the rule was that the battalion in line can ignore “Must Form Square” as it’s flanks are protected much the same as if anchored on a built up area or impassable terrain. Does that ring a bell with anybody? I can’t remember the exact wording though and it may be that the anchoring assault columns must already be in square, not reacting, when the charge is declared against the line battalion.

I must take issue though with your second paragraph. Unless I’m missing something, a unit can only declare a charge against more than one unit in very restrictive circumstances most of which are based on the size of the defending unit/s.

Final query for the day, I hope and this might seem a no brainer. In CoE Cossacks are rated as Irregular. The MRB states Irregular troops may adopt March Column but default to either Skirmish or Warband formation. My Russian opponent believes that the only formation his Cossacks can deploy into is Skirmish because Warband doesn’t apply to cavalry. I disagree and believe his Cossacks can either be in Skirmish or Warband formation. Thoughts?

Final comment for the day. Just noticed a major error in MRB. For the Eve of Waterloo scenario all British and French Light cavalry, including Polish Lancers of the Guard are rated as Irregular as are Voltigeurs and British Riflemen. Can’t believe that’s not a typo.

Cheers guys. Look forward to your comments.

[RKHaryett]

Hello again. Black Powder is our group’s current ruleset for Napoleonics. We have played two games and are in the midst of our third. Our games tend to be rather large as we have a permanent table and played over a number of nights. Anyway, I digress. I have a question regarding Closing Fire.

Generally speaking, Closing Fire is issued by the target of a charge which other than a couple very specific exceptions is a single unit. He have had the situation where a large cavalry unit in line (6 bases on a 9″ front) has charged a French regiment of 3 battalions in mixed order. They targeted the left side attack column which promptly formed square. The Cavalry’s movement brought them in range of the 2nd battalion in line. The Cavalry’s frontage covered a considerable part of the battalions frontage, about 1/2. Can the battalion in line issue Closing Fire? By analogy with the example of the artillery adjacent to an infantry unit, I would say “Yes”. Thoughts?

Kent

[RKHaryett]

Regarding enfilade and traversing fire, my bad. I was not precise with my description of the situation. The French unit which received enfilading fire from the BUA ended it’s move in a position where it could receive that type of fire. The unit was attempting to bypass the BUA in which case it might have received traversing fire but the dice gods were not kind and the unit ended it’s movement in a position to be enfiladed. As the French player receiving the enfilading fire, I had no issues, in the circumstances, with the Austrians claiming the double dice bonus.

[RKHaryett]

I just tracked Adrian down on his FB page and asked him about the “Veteran” upgrade allowed to cavalry units in CoE. Adrian confirmed that the +1 is to Combat Resolution rather than “To Hit” or “Morale Save” which makes sense to me.

[RKHaryett]

I’m with Big Al on this one Igor. Buildings are discussed on pp. 37-38 and 77. Having just reviewed those pages, I can confirm that there is no mention whatsoever of skirmishers. The rules refer to infantry units and draws an analogy between units in square and units in a building.

Skirmish is a special rule which gives certain units the ability to break down into skirmish formation as opposed to Mixed formation which allows a unit to deploy its light company/ies to skirmish ahead of the main body. The MRB allows units without the Skirmish characteristic to adopt Skirmish formation to enter terrain it could not otherwise enter. This rule is fine tuned in CoE on p.110 to better reflect Napoleonic practice.

Accordingly, units in a building can deliver enfilading fire.

@Big Al – The rule I asked you about simply states: Upgrade Cavalry Unit to Veteran (Reliable and +1 HtH). The points cost for such an upgrade is 6. I have searched for clarification but have not found an answer. I figure the “+1 HtH” must refer to Combat Resolution because a +1 to the “To Hit” would make Veteran units very powerful. Strangely, the Old Guard, both infantry and cavalry, are not Veteran nor can they be upgraded. So a veteran Austrian cavalry unit would be significantly better (16% better chance of getting a hit) in melee than say the Grenadiers a Cheval. I can’t see how being Veteran would cause more casualties. Rather, experience would allow them to better handle the vicissitudes of combat. Just my thoughts. Will see if I can get some clarification from the FB page.

[RKHaryett]

@ Big Al: I believe you and have no reason to doubt you. I will relay that info. to my gaming buddies. So all nations in essence have Pas de Charge. I thought Pas de Charge made French units in assault column Reliable and hence, the +1. Oh well no point in complaining. The Russians and Austrians have it even tougher…lol…I’m sure my Austrian opponents will be delighted with this news.

While I have your attention, perhaps you could confirm the +1 in HtH for Veteran cavalry (as noted in Clash of Eagles) is a result modifier rather than a “To Hit” modifier or Morale Save Modifier. I couldn’t find a clarification.

Thanks for the input. It’s a shame that all the info on the old forum has been lost.

Kent

[RKHaryett]

First, thank you for your input, gentlemen.

@Igor – Unless I’m missing something, infantry in buildings are not skirmishers. Please provide a page number in the MRB that suggests otherwise.

@Big Al – We use historical OOBs and try to give SR based on historical performance; our own observations and upon review of the many other rulesets that have evaluated commanders. Typically, an Austrian Brigadier will have an SR of 7; Pre 1813 French and Post 1812 Prussians an 8.

We are taking into consideration all the command modifiers plus modifiers from the “Special Rules” which means that most European units will get the +1 for Assault Column and the French another +1 for Pas de charge. Except for the rare blunder, our units stay within supporting distance of each other. I can see the distance from Commander as being an issue only in small games where troop density is ahistorically low. I am very fortunate in having a permanent 8×6, expandable to 12×6, table so we can fight largish battles over a number of evenings (we play in 15mm BTW).

We are using the Optional Corps Commander rules but have limited their reroll ability to the entire game rather than per turn.

Anyway, we are half way through a most enjoyable first game. Casualties are starting to mount as we approach the climax of the battle. Eleven French Battalions in 3 waves are poised to pierce the Austrian centre which has been left perilously thin after the Austrian CiC shifted the supporting units to his right flank. However, as a result of a major French blunder (I got distracted by a pizza and forgot to activate an entire Brigade) the Austrian left wing commander has a golden opportunity, if bold enough, to intervene and cause us much mischief. Looking forward to picking up this Friday.

Thanks again, guys.

Kent

[RKHaryett]

Having our first game of BP/Clash of Eagles and so far we have been pleased with the playability, results and flavour. However, as might be expected, a couple of questions came up during our game. I hope the experienced players can lend their insight.

1) Proximity Rule: We have a situation where the Austrians have occupied a small village in advance of their main defensive position and capable of holding two battalions. The French have engaged the front of the village with artillery and infantry and on the right side (French perspective), have a unit risking enfilade fire from the buildings and bypassing the village to threaten an Austrian battery on a hill to the right rear of the village. That battalion is withing proximity range of the village. Can it change facing to face the village (the battery was destroyed by other means) in preparation of assault or does it have to withdraw beyond proximity first? Does a change of facing/formation count as a move?

2) Similarly, we are using the suggested rule that a unit which moves more than once cannot fire. Can a unit move once then change formation (assuming the dice will allow 2 moves) and still fire?

I think we are all enjoying the rules although we all think that getting 3 moves is too easy and may houserule to make it more difficult, at least for infantry.

Cheers and thanks in advance for any insight.

Kent

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