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April 26, 2022 at 3:22 pm #187598ArtfulBParticipant
Both regular British Line Infantry and KGL Line infantry are 39pts (AT1 pp 100,102, 104). British Lights are 42pts vs 43pts for their dashing Hannovarian counterparts, which also have rifle mixed order capability (pp 100, 102, 103). Note that the Portuguese Cacadores cost 52 points (better stats).
By Waterloo, those KGL light batallions had up to 50% rifles (fire as rifles in skirmish, muskets in close formation) ?
Black Powder 2 quietly dropped the points system altogether – just shoot at those damned French to your hearts content!
I have often thought that the Baker might better be modeled as a rifled Carbine (with perhaps a +1 shooting modifier not at close range?), rather than a rifled Musket (such as the Harper’s Ferry M1803 https://www.strikehardgear.com/Blog/rifles-that-made-america-war-of-1812/).
Black Powder rules do not really go into that level of detail.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by ArtfulB.
September 25, 2021 at 4:06 pm #186351ArtfulBParticipantPortugese Brigades post 1810 typically consisted of 2 line regiments each of two batallions plus possibly an independant Cazadore batallion. All batallions consisted of 5 companies , the 5th company being a grenadier company in the 1st Line, a light company in the 2nd line and a rifle armed Atiriadore company for the Cazadores.
Pre 1812, the Cazadores may well be absent. (see 1, 2)
The regimental light company might be made up of Warlord grenadarios figures (5th one with the short sword option) but a different paint job (see 1).
The AT1 listings for the Portuguese troops (3, p103) are an approximation. They model a line regiment as a Black Powder batallion and only one can be upgraded to Large.
IMHO a better approximation would be to have all 5 batallions as Small or 2 Large Line regiments plus a Small Cazadore battalion.
Having closer access to conscript replacements, these Portuguese formations were often better at keeping up to strength than their British counterparts. In manpower, an Anglo-Portuguese division could be close to equal in numbers despite there being nominally 2 British and 1 Portuguese Brigades in the Division.
In some scenarios, 5 Standard formations may even be approriate.
References: (Nb the ISBN numbers should let you get them on inter library loan, otherwise they can be found on the internet at the usual places.)
1] The Portuguese Army of the Napoleonic Wars (1), Osprey Men at Arms, Chartrand Younghusband, 2000, ISBN-10 : 1855327678
2] Wellington’s Army in the Peninsular 1809-1814, Osprey Battle Orders, Reid, 2004, ISBN-10 : 1 841765171
3] Albion Truimphant vol 1, Warlord Games, McWalter, 2014, ISBN-13 : 978-0-95633581-5-8
April 3, 2021 at 6:06 pm #185139ArtfulBParticipantp 19 of the BP vII rulebook: …base size is not all that important ……. as it will make next to no difference in our game.
I’ve been using 3 cav troopers on a 60mm x 45mm base for years, merely because that is the default base size you get on the free bases with a Perry cavalry box. 4 bases for a standard Cav unit of 12 troopers – 18(6), 6(2), 3(1) troopers and bases for the large small and tiny respectively.
As long as you & your opponents are happy, fine.
Exact base width matching between cavalry, infantry & artillery isn’t critical. If the Cav get into contact, their opponents will likely break, not noticing the odd mm or so base difference ;} .
I mostly base my infantry 2 on a 20*40mm base with some individuals but then put them on a movement tray 4 wide 2 deep; 3 of these making up a BP standard batallion. This compromise allows me to get them into skirmish dispersion for rules such as Sharp Practice.
(You can also share those trays across armies & periods…)
Others will have their infantry on individual square or 1p size bases then put them on a bespoke tray, possibly held by magnets see https://warbases.co.uk/product-category/movement-trays/1p-trays/ – many other such suppliers are out there.
A quick recommendation – don’t. Initially use thick card to your preferred size and lightly PVA glue the figures. Decorate the bases minimally (a little sand on the PVA as it dries then a quick dab of paint when all set). Later on, you can prize the figures off and remount them to your preferred size when you are comfortable with it.
Starting an army of 200+ figures (any scale) is a significant job.
IMHO, getting your troops on the table soon is more of a priorty than turning up with pristine artwork years later. You can always add the master artwork to the figures and prize horticulture on the bases as a future phase.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by ArtfulB.
March 31, 2021 at 6:15 pm #185116ArtfulBParticipantIf you have a Bolt Action/Warhammer background, you may find it useful to consider the Sharp Practice! skirmish ruleset ahead of BP.
All you need are a couple of boxes of French and British infantry and you are good to go. Any non modern 28mm scenery such as hills, trees walls etc are useable (OK that fetching purple Sci Fi tree may need a visit from a green spray can). Better still, if you have any local clubs around, see if they play the rules and attempt to get trial games in there before embarking on a major army building spree. Try before you buy!
For cost reasons, you have to aim to raise most of your troops from the plastic ranges.
Always be on the lookout for existing gamers selling off excess units/armies – you might be able pick up some unused forces that way rather than build and paint new ones yourself – ask around the local club. Don’t pay much more than the basic figure cost, you are looking for the unwanted troops, not a professionally commisioned epic costing £1000’s.
Get a look at other peoples figures to see which manufacturers you prefer. Warlord, Perry and Front Rank figures are pretty much compatible in my opinion (others may violently disagree). None cover all you need in plastic (FR is metal only). Victrix and the new kid on the block Atlantic Games are also out there.
If you do decide to plunge in, the starter set/deal is your friend. Base your initial forces on either the Warlord Peninsular French and British sets or the Perry British and French brigade deals.
If you go the Warlord way, one starter box each plus a box of Heavy (French) and Light (British) will give you two balanced brigade level armies. ( A similar excercise could be done using the Perry deals.)
The Warlord Brits will need some Rifles (10 plastic for £10? WLD or 5*indiv sprues from Perry) an extra sprue of Wld HC (no horse for the officer) and a box of Perry British Light dragoons. Do not assemble the Heavies as Scots Greys (as per the WLD photo), make them up as bicorne or watering cap options !
The French would benefit from a Perry plastic French Light dragoon command sprue with a box of Perry Dragoons (which gives some extra dismounted dragoons).
You then have a 4 unit brigade of infantry, artillery piece and 2 weak (2* 6 man) heavy and light cav brigades.
This is enough to learn with at ~£100 per army each.
- never charge cavalry unsupported
- do not charge cavalry into a ditch.
The Ponsonby family have a lot to answer for.
Paint, use and learn before expanding any further ! Do not commit any further cash until the first phase is completed. Only when you are complete and happy do you do the next £200 of spending and weeks of painting/assembly to up these to a divisional strength force
March 31, 2021 at 4:46 pm #185112ArtfulBParticipantAT1 utterly ignores the Medeterrainian Front and the operations of Marshal Suchet during the Peninsular War. After all, Albion was hardly Triumphant over there.
Not only do you get Cuirassiers, there are also Polish, Italian and Neapolitan forces alongside the Gallant Marshal (the Vistula Legion Infantry regiments belonged to his army up to 1812 when Boney stole them for his tour of Russia).
13ieme Cuirassier were the spearhead of Boussart’s cavalry which sliced Blake’s army apart at Valencia.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saguntum_and_Valencia_order_of_battle)
Boussart’s cavalry was also present for Suchet’s defeat at Castalla byMurray’s Anglo-Spanish forces, being used in a flanking role. The Brits faced them there, though didn’t have to face them in a Ney inspired death ride. ( http://www.peninsular-war.com/history/html/Castalla-Account-combat-10128.html)
All cavalry in Spain had dire supply issues and major difficulties obtaining remounts, this was especially true for Spanish and French horse. A problem exacerbated for the heavies with their need for extra large and ravenously hungry beasts.
If you look at the ORBAT in the above Valencia link 13ieme fielded 500+ troopers, wheras their Spanish counterparts stuggled to turn up in squadron strength. Boussart had a full strength Cuirassier and two full strength Dragoon regiments – no contest.
At Waterloo, the Cuirassiers protected D’Erlons left flank during his disasterous attack at the start of the battle, holding off and wounding the Household Brigade.
They were also responsible for cutting to pieces the Prince of Orange’s tactically inept attempts to refinforce La Haye Sainte during the middle period of the battle. By the final phase, they would either be shot to pieces or blown (i.e. the horses too exhausted to be of use). The same applies to the Allied heavies – they were all combat ineffective at the end. It is no surprise that Wellington uses Vivian and Vandeleur’s LD brigades to support the final advance, the only fresh, reliable troopers he had.
If you field a Cuirassier unit in BP, one box of Perry cav should suffice, fielded as either 2 small 6 man units for Waterloo or a single 12 man one with Boussart in the Med.
If you really want to go left field, you could field a small unit of Spanish Coraceros made up of captured French gear 😉 http://www.littlewars.se/spanish/coraceros.html
March 18, 2021 at 9:52 pm #184988ArtfulBParticipantI was referring to the Frazer’s varient for the white facings and flag.
@Haskeer , there are two other sources of running legs that come to mind – Perry plastic 95th rifles and Victrix napoleonic British infantry. Again you’ll have to chop the figures in half and glue onto the top half of your chosen Frenchman, milliput and a set of needle files are your freinds.- This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by ArtfulB.
March 17, 2021 at 9:48 pm #184978ArtfulBParticipantWhat was the source for that png?
Btw if you look at that NAM link I posted, those kilted 71st seem to be in Black Watch gear! I don’t trust contemporary paintings either ;).
The 71st had white (not blue) facings during the AWI period and a white batallion colour, depicted as a cross of St George on photos of some wargames figures (don’t tell Nicola….. ). The Napoleonic era colour was definitely white only.
As for the addiction to figure customisation, check out the head options on the new Atlantic Wargames Rifles box. There is an entire Naval Landing Party or Spanish Guerilla force in there when mixed in with some Perry Confederate torsos and cutlass type arms. Methinks a mounted RHA officer may be lurking in there too amongst the spares
March 16, 2021 at 6:20 pm #184963ArtfulBParticipantThey lost their kilts and became light infantry during refit after Corruna : (https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/71st-highland-regiment-foot-light-infantry ).
Did they keep the pipers in a ceremonial or operational role for their second visit to Spain? Was the instrument funded by the officers mess for their private entertainment or to inspire the men in combat ? A barrel of decent single malt would have done better, cheaper !
Such nuances can erupt into all out flame warfare on threds such as these 😉
That HLI png looks like it may have come off a Hat Industrie box illustration. Be careful with them as a historical source : they depict their 1/72 scale rocket troops as using the 1816 + copper tube launcher intended for the improved centre line stick rockets. Perrys have a similar tube model launcher in their Carlist wars range – not suitable for 1812-1815 period.
March 15, 2021 at 5:15 pm #184950ArtfulBParticipantI don’t think 71 HLI of the Napoleonic era used pipers, their grandads of the 71st of Foot did in the Americas.
That rockket cart is indeed the missing item from the Warlord range. Standard gun frame with the two long boxes as per your photo
March 15, 2021 at 1:52 pm #184940ArtfulBParticipantIt’s the appendixes in the original Sharpe novels that are of use, nay mandatory, reading for aspiring Peninsular gamers.
They could have got Chas’n Dave to revoice Mr Bean’s dialogue 😉
Getting the author to enlist Sharpe in the Sheffield based 33rd during it’s service in India was a bit extreme. Wellington never liked rockets since having been in command of said battalion when it was routed by Tippoo’s rocketeers.
I have actually scratched a rocket cart (see Congreve’s 1813 paper over on projectgutenberg ) – equipment can be done too, not just figures.
You can make up the AWI version of the 71st using bonneted heads from Trent Miniatures and either Perry or Warlord British AWI bodies. A few spare Claymores and a set of Bagpipes from the Victrix Highland box make up the unit.
Oh and a lurcher dog 😉
March 14, 2021 at 7:48 am #184926ArtfulBParticipantWant to be the first to contact the enemy? Follow the advice of Brigadier Gerard – join the cavalry and become a Hussar! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigadier_Gerard).
Perry’s do some exceedingly good plastic ones (Warlord do a cheaper French Hussar box). You can read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s tales of the Gallant Gascon for free over at project gutenberg.
As I wrote the above tome, I was looking at my French 1814 drummer (made up conventionally) and a running drummer which I had converted into a Swiss grenadier.
I just remembered the original figure was from Elite miniatures, but I found it too small when up against my 28mm Perry/Warlord/Victrix levee en masse. The Warlord head system has the collars moulded to the head, everyone else on the body. Chopping off the smaller head, filing it’s collar down then adding a new (Warlord style, grenadier bearskin) one turns your 25 mm+ figure into 27mm+ one, making it more compatible.
Redoubt Miniatures Napoleonics are also more 25mm than 28mm (yet their AWI/FIW/ACW ranges are OK). I bought a battalion of Portuguese Cazadores blind a few years ago only to find that one out the hard way, swapping out with the spare shako set you get in the Warlord Portuguese box did the trick.
Sheffield accents are not required to use a Baker rifle …..
- This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by ArtfulB.
March 11, 2021 at 1:03 pm #180008ArtfulBParticipantBuilding an Austrian army in plastic is well covered, so far, I have resisted the temptation to build one.
The Wurst artillery should be less mobile than regular horse artillery but cheaper, guns in general have to be done using metal figures.
Perry actually produce the https://store.warlordgames.com/products/napoleonic-wars-napoleonic-austrian-infantry-1809-1815 box along with a recently introduced box of cavalry which may well also be available via Warlord . Both of these boxes have so many options to them that they cover almost all you need.
Warlord Polish Lancers and French Hussars could be used as Uhlans and Hussars – other manufacturers are out there.
March 9, 2021 at 11:16 pm #184777ArtfulBParticipantAh – I forgot,
It’s been a while since I made up my 1814 Perry drummer – you get an alternate pair of drummer arms : right arm hand holding both sticks, left arm open hand. Use these & omit the stick surgery above (or crop the sticks from the alternate right arm).
March 9, 2021 at 8:06 pm #184774ArtfulBParticipantIf I recall, the Warlord metal officier you get with a standard line batallion pack and the original Perry plastic command pack officer are both suitable as is for mixing into a running formation.
As for the drummer, don’t panic 😉
Just reach for the green stuff/milliput.
Look at the intended drummer figures body and compare what is different with one of those running skirmishers – really only the prescence of the apron
Separate the drummer torso from his walking legs to replace with a split pair of running skirmisher legs.
Both the drum and short sword are on belts, imagine your new running drummer has pulled his sword belt forward and pushed the drum one back.
The back of the drummer has a short sword – carefully trim this off (in one piece) place the drum so it starts on the figures hip where the sword used to be rather than his inner thigh. The sword will now go between the drum and the thigh.
Glue the new legs and torso together make up a little apron with the milliput and stick the short sword and drum in their new places.
Chop the sticks off the drummers arms and glue onto the stickholder bump on the drummer’s belt.
The left stickless arm now goes backwards with its hand on the top of the drum pushing it to the rear, the equivalent right arm goes forward in a running motion. If you have access to spares from a box of Victrix French, that right hand could be replaced with a drawn short sword or pistol.
Why are your French running away ?
Is someone fielding a British rifle skirmish unit lead by an Essex boy with a Sheffield accent ?
- This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by ArtfulB.
March 8, 2021 at 1:42 am #184750ArtfulBParticipantTry converting Perry 1814 Plastic French.
The command sprue has an officier with a single lower body and two upper body options. There are also two skirmisher sprues with rank and file running, cut these in half and add to the officers.
Carefully chop the standard bearer in two and glue a running rank bottom to suit or use his arms on a running ranking figure.
Use the cornet arm from the command sprue ‘neat’ with one of the running bodies off the skirmisher sprue.
Btw they sell Dragoon officier command sprues seperately, use one of the spare officer sprues (high plume shako or even bearskin) for a mounted Officier.
Mixing and matching plastic parts from Warlord, Victrix and Perry ranges can give all sorts of options.
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