[Doug]

Kris – I thought the community was non-existent based on the traffic here but there is a WoE FB group that gets much higher traffic volume than these forums do.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Doug.

[Doug]

It looks like when 5 Mounted Samurai charge 10 Archers that have been upgraded to having having Long Bows a draw is likely, but the fight could easily go either way depending on who roll well. That’s probably what you should expect when a less expensive unit charges a more expensive unit. That extra pin from the Exchange of Missiles can be hard to overcome when you are only throwing out 5 attacks. Due to their high Res, putting a hit on the unit Leader to hopefully soak with Tough might be enough to put the Mounted Samurai ahead.

Calvary is probably better off charging units that have already received pins from your own ranged units. I think I’ve seen the phrase “Pinning is winning” used in regards to WoE, and I think that’s probably really solid advice.

Here’s the napkin math on how the charge plays out:
10 Archers with Long Bow ACC5, STR5, RES5 Sword +1STR/SV1, Longbow SV1 (152 pts)
5 Mounted Samurai ACC5, STR6, RES8 Sword +1STR/SV1 (132 pts)

Exchange of Missiles 2 hits, 0.6 expected casualties to Mounted Samurai
5 Mounted Samurai should expect to inflict 2.4 casualties on when charging Archers.
10 Archers should expect to inflict 1.8 casualties on the charging Cavalry.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Doug.

[Doug]

Were all of the hits from the Long Bow ranged attacks being rerolled when targeting a Calvary unit that had been issued a Run order? That should make a big difference in how many casualties you take when charging. You’ll still probably end up with a pin, but you may be attacking with a full strength unit instead of being 2 models down.

Also, did you remember that attacks made during Exchange of Missiles suffer a -1 ACC penalty?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Doug.

[Doug]

Here’s a link to the point value document that Rick Priestley put out.

Also there’s a Facebook group with a lot more traffic than these forums that gets the occasional bits of feedback from Rick.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/346087639280114/?ref=share

[Doug]

Apparently whatever civilization my dwarfs came from skipped discovering the spear. They’ve got hammers, axes, and crossbows covered with a couple of swords tossed in for the novelty of it but not a spear to be found.

When I finish painting everything dwarf that I’ve got in my queue I should have the following to choose from:

Dwarf Lord w/4 Bodyguards
Runesmith
Dwarf Hero
10 Dwarf Archers w/crossbows
10 Dwarf Rangers
10 Maniacs
Organ Gun with 3 crew
Bolt Thrower with 3 crew
Dwarf Flying Machine

I’ll have about a dozen unbuilt GW dwarf warriors (circa 2000) that I’m still trying to figure out what I want to build.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Doug.

[Doug]

Just curious, what’s the reasoning behind that? More orders and opportunities to apply pins from the small ranged units and more bulk of dice to win melees from the large combat units?

I’m putting together a Dwarf warband right now and it seems like even the shooting units are combat units =).

[Doug]

Halberds (+1 STR, 2 SV) seem like they are almost always going to be a better choice than a BBA (3 SV, Heavily Laden). Even on a unit with Heavy Armor that already has Heavily Laden it seems like having a modification to both the hit roll and the damage roll is probably a mild advantage.

Crossbows and Bow are a little harder to compare. When using a Fire Order to shoot (which is the only way that a Crossbow can shoot) the 1 SV from the Crossbow is essentially the same as the +1 ACC that the bow gets on any shot up to 20”. The Crossbow does have the ability to shoot out to 30” but it gives up the option to move and fire on the same order that Bows have. It seems like the Crossbow should be a side-grade to a Bow instead of an upgrade that costs an additional point.

[Doug]

This started with me trying to figure out if there is any reason that I should take a Big Bloomin’ Axe over a Halberd (I don’t think there is unless the unit is going to have Heavy Armor and then its pretty much a wash) and whether it makes sense to pay 1 point per model to upgrade from bows to crossbows (I think it probably doesn’t but all the dwarfs models I have with ranged weapons have crossbows).

[Doug]

That’s how I read the rules on it.

Oddly enough, it doesn’t seem like the artillery piece its self is Large, just the crew members, unless there is some general “all artillery models are large” rule that I’m missing.

[Doug]

I’m determined to figure out how the game is meant to be played by the rules. It’s entirely possible that artillery is only intended to fire once per order but that’s not something that seems to be supported but the written rules.

How is someone suppossed to divine that the intention is that cannons fire once per order from reading the rules when what is actually in the rules and unit profiles points to them being used by the crew members just like any other weapon they have listed in their profiles?

[Doug]

Large on artillery units (that aren’t Overhead) seems like a pure drawback now.

[Doug]

That doesn’t clarify things at all. If you look at the individual crew members they each have an organ gun listed as a weapon.

Further is the first line of the quote the equivilent of:

(weapons) and (monsters with their own ranged attacks)

or

(weapons and monsters) whith their own ranged attacks.

If it’s the first it covers crossbows, slings, bows as well as cannons and organ guns. They all have entries listed on the weapons tables.

If it’s the second, I’m not sure what it would actually cover since none of the artillery pieces (unlike monstrosities with crew) have stats with which to make attacks. If an organ gun attacks, how do you know if it hits?

For things to actually work as you suggest one of two thing’s needs to happen in the rules. The first option would be to remove the weapon that coresponds to the artillery unit from the statline of each crew member and give the equipment stats that can be used to resolve attacks. The other option is to add a rule that says only a single crew member in an artillery unit may use the equipment for an attack each Fire order.

[Doug]

The equipment is listed in the individual crewmen’s statline. If the crew members aren’t firing the weapon, what stat do you use when you fire?

The quote from page 134 doesn’t seem to apply to artillery since it doesn’t have any of its own stats. Chariots and Monstrosities with crew list those items with the models and give them the relevant stats. That’s not the case with artillery.

[Doug]

Overthinking the rules is how you end up only making one shot per Fire order with artillery isn’t it?

[Doug]

If you look at the army lists the crew members are Large and Slow 3 but the artillery piece itself is not. The crew members have stats like Acc, the artillery piece does not. Each crew member is listed as having their armor, hand to hand weapon, and a weapon that matches the artillery type for the unit. That weapon is on the weapon chart just like a bow or crossbow would be. There is nothing that I can find that says otherwise. The closest thing that I find in the rules to instructing one on how to attack with artillery was quoted above and just says that artillery are ranged weapons.

If you don’t read the rules with any baggage you bring from other games, there doesn’t seem to be anything in the rules that would lead you to believe that each crew member wouldn’t get to make an attack with the artillery weapon with which they are equipped. That is unless I’m missing something in the rules. I went through the PDF searching for “artillery” and didn’t see anything that seemed relevant.

[Author]

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