[Shrokins]

I suppose the other thing is that bombs can hit targets on land.

[Shrokins]

I’d say torpedoes are the deadliest weapon in the game! I think if you play a few matches you’ll see that ships can and do close to short range, especially destroyers, and that devastation results. Destroyers and cruisers can torpedo a battleship or fleet carrier off the table in a single attack. Ignore torpedoes at your fleet’s peril!

[Shrokins]

Nat, sure, but plain bombers still take a 6 to hit in base contact, unlike torpedo-bombers on 5+, that’s my point; the answer to Brandon’s question about Albacores and Swordfish is that as torpedo bombers they have more firepower, but as plain bombers they are harder to shoot down before making their attack.

[Shrokins]

Peter, I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking, but I’ll take a crack at answering it. Using the -2 modifier for torpedoes, torpedoes can hit targets at all range bands, and all range bands are different, hence, all the range bands are included. At extreme range, a torpedo can still hit ships that are stationary and silhouetted (4+2+2-1-1=6 to hit). At long range, a torpedo can hit ships that are stationary or silhouetted (4+2+1-1=6). At short range, a torpedo can hit ships that are neither on a 6. At point blank, a torpedo can hit them on a 5.

 

[Shrokins]

The trade-off between using Swordfish as bombers vs torpedo-bombers is that bombers have less punch, but torpedo-bombers are twice as easy to hit (being hit on fives instead of sixes).

[Shrokins]

My guesses…

Japanese aircraft set: Betty flights, Kate flights, and an Emily.

IJN ship: Since Germany got Tirpitz, I imagine IJN will get Musashi.

 

US aircraft: two of the following types: Avenger, Dauntless, Flying Fortress, Mitchell or Wildcat, plus either a Catalina or Coronado.

USN ship: a light cruiser, as the US doesn’t have one yet. Probably the Atlanta-class. Less likely, but possible: the Alaska-class large cruiser.

[Shrokins]

Hi Antonio. You’re right, the card is wrong. Black Seas is great fun, but the cards don’t always reflect history. I think it would be more accurate to play the USS Essex with three carronade dice and one heavy cannon die on each side. Congrats on adding those fine and famous ships to your fleet!

[Shrokins]

Haha, a four Kongo game would be great. If there were some way to play on-line, I’d do it. Missouri, Arizona, Chicago and Northampton would make it a four on four, 1500 pts vs 1500 pts, guns only deathmatch.

[Shrokins]

Christian, I think the answer to your question about evading is: nobody knows. The players don’t, because the rules booklet is vague. And I suspect the designers never thought of this gap in the rules. For whatever reason, there are loads of such gaps. IMHO, the best way to approach Victory at Sea is to consider it still in beta; I think of it as a fun, unfinished game with lots of potential. Maybe the full rulebook will bring us answers in January.

One of the biggest gaps in the rules, in my view, is setting out precisely what happens when ships bump bases. (I find matches often devolve into a brutal torpedo knife-fight, with ships’ bases jammed up against each other, and these situations raise many questions.)

• This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Shrokins.

[Shrokins]

Here’s how I grade the battleships for their points value:

A: Arizona, Bismarck (data card), Idaho, New Mexico.

B: Duke of York, Scharnhorst.

C: Bismarck (booklet), Missouri, Warspite, Yamato.

D: Kongo.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Shrokins.

[Shrokins]

That sounds very interesting. If you need another player, feel free to send me a message. Especially if you need a CO for the USS Missouri; I just received my Missouri model in the mail today and I’m eager to take her out for a rip.

[Shrokins]

Wow, what program are you using in that screenshot? Is that through Tabletop Simulator? Also, look at all those custom planes and hexagonal coastline tiles. That’s impressive.

[Shrokins]

I’ve played as Japan, the UK and the US. As the US and UK, I pretty much always bring a battleship and screen it, and it seems to work well. I’ve never used a battleship as Japan (the Kongō model is one of my favourites, but it’s not worth anywhere close to 375 points), so I don’t really have anything to screen. My IJN strategy is a big torpedo rush: while the carrier hangs back and launches aircraft, my destroyers and cruisers use their speed and manoeuvrability to keep the enemy 12 to 17 inches away and launch torpedoes until there are no more enemies. It turns into a race of torpedoes vs. guns/Corsairs. (I like those odds; as you pointed out, the “devastating” rule is, well, devastating.)

I think you are absolutely spot on as to which Japanese ships are best for their points in general: Fubukis, Aganos, and Shōkakus. No doubt in my mind, these are “top tier” ships for their cost. Against an enemy with aircraft, I agree completely, the best Fubuki spec is the 1943 Group 2. That upgrade is 10 points very well spent.

[Shrokins]

I understand the rules the same way. One difference I see: I’ve never had a game where planes have the “tough” rule. If there’s a big air attack, I circle the wagons: if smaller ships are around the battleship acting as shield, one or more usually get to fire local AA during the movement phase, and then, most importantly, they get to pour their dual-purpose guns in during the shooting phase, before the aircraft attack. A typical situation I see looks like this: six flights attack, three are shot down, the remaining flights expend their weapons (effectively taking them out of the fight), and one lands a hit. One hit per six flights doesn’t seem too bad from the ships’ perspective. It’s different if the ship is alone; I agree that a ship on its own is vulnerable to a massed group of aircraft.

I don’t have the Yamato yet (I’ll get it though, of course!), but I treat my (relatively sissy) battleships as “glass cannons”; I do what I can to keep them shooting in the back while my smaller ships get in the way of the enemy. Precious battleship vs. small things with bombs or torpedoes is a match-up I try hard to avoid. I have zero experience playing with or against the Yamato, but I can’t imagine Yamato being worth the points (in a competitive game) unless you had some serious rings of defence. (Zeroes, cruisers that enemy bombers have to fly over or near to, etc.).

My understanding is the actual Yamato, with help from the Yahagi and accompanying destroyers, only shot down two or three flights of aircraft before being sunk. I hope your Yamato is sent on a more fortunate mission (with air cover!).

[Shrokins]

Good stuff, coming up with stats for all those types of planes.

I’m also having fun trying out Victory at Sea. So far, my experience with aircraft has been different; maybe it’s a difference of tactics in our games, or expectations as to how effective AAA should be, or the luck of the dice. I find that ships swat down planes in droves; that, if the game leans one way, it’s skewed pro-ship, rather than pro-aircraft. (Which I don’t mind; it’s primarily a ship game). From what I’ve seen, when a ship is caught on its own by a massed force of bombers, it’s toast, but a group of ships can fight off hordes of aircraft, especially if they fly in piecemeal.

I agree that torpedoes are way, way deadlier than guns in the game, but I think that’s on purpose. The game reflects the idea that it’s unusual for a capital ship to sink after a few shells (when it does, as with the Bretagne or Hood, it’s due to a huge secondary explosion), but not after a few torpedoes (as with Royal Oak, Barham, Repulse, Shinano, Shōkaku, etc.). In WWI, a battleship (Szent István) was sunk by a motorboat. So the Yamato vs. Fubuki-class comparison doesn’t seem awry to me, in terms of firepower or cost.

Of course, whatever history says, I want battleships in my fleet. I think the trick is to screen them, so the enemy never get close—the player whose battleship is under torpedo attack from point-blank range is probably not winning.

One aspect of the game I do find a bit iffy is the Type 93 torpedo’s accuracy. A torpedo would only move something like 10” per turn, so it seems strange that it can just insta-zap ships at 17” like other torpedoes at 3”. Just because the Type 93 has more range doesn’t mean it’s going to be that much more accurate, especially against a moving, manoeuvring target. (Maybe the accuracy should gradually decline, rather than remaining steady before falling off a cliff at 20”.)

I haven’t yet had a game where a player rolls 10 scouting points; you must be having epic battles!

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