[Dave Morris]

I think it would have to be dependent on the scenario; there are several instances in the ECW where a “wing” of an army contained both cavalry and infantry. If you want to restrict a Commander to one arm only, then you will need to add in some extra commanders, which might skew the game, as it would perhaps make one army a bit more likely to activate units than its opponent. At the end of the day, the rules are really a framework and can be adjusted to the preferences of the players; for example we don’t use the ratings in the rule book, preferring those suggested by Wargames Designs, which, in our view, better  reflect the organisation and troop types in the ECW.

[Dave Morris]

Rules allow both options, but for ECW I prefer “combined units”, unless historical scenario suggests otherwise ( for example, some of the smaller battles involving Cheshire Foot seem to have been “ musket heavy” on the Parliamentary side).The whole point of having pikemen and musketeers in a unit was to offer mutual support. We have used the “ To Kill a King” suggestions, but I prefer the ideas in Wargames Design’s blog. (link below) This allows a bit more flexibility in troop types and, in my limited experience, plays very well on the table.

https://www.wargamesdesigns.com/ecw-blog

https://www.wargamesdesigns.com/uploads/8/8/4/5/8845944/pike___shotte_amendments_for_pdf.pdf

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by Dave Morris.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by Dave Morris.

[Dave Morris]

The original Pike and Shotte rules simply used small/ standard/ large to describe units and gave a frontages for each. I worked on the basis that standard was about 600 men for infantry, 300 for cavalry. Three of the Epic bases side by side gives a frontage of 18cm, which fits into the “standard”  range. Given the inflexibility of the models, not sure how you could represent “small “. Personally, I think the figures are awful in so many ways that I will stick to playing with my 28mm and “real” 15mm.

[Dave Morris]

Might be able to work it out from this blurb on Warlord site:-

• Tan and grey hard plastic figures: 6 mounted battalia commanders, 6 ensigns, 6 mounted cornets, 14 combined pike & shot regiments (80 soldiers each), 36 commanded shotte, 60 cavalry, 12 cuirassiers, 18 mounted dragoons, 30 dismounted dragoons, 6 Saker cannon and 6 Falconet light guns
• Green plastic bases for all figures

 

 

[Dave Morris]

Isn’t doing it like that effectively just the same as RAW ? Really just splitting up the move in a different way? A player will see the effect of shooting before deciding what they want the unit to do. If we do try it, I think we will stick to Order/shoot/ move/etc

In our club set of rules, we use “ Order Cards”, which are laid face down against a unit at the beginning of a turn and revealed once all orders are given. Helps those of us of a certain age remember what we are supposed to be doing🙂

[Dave Morris]

@ Rough Rider

i assume you play as normal: state your intentions clearly BEFORE you do anything, i.e. Give your orders THEN do any firing, move the figures, defenders give closing fire if appropriate and resolve combats, if there are any.

it is only the order  in which firing and moving are carried out that changes.

 

[Dave Morris]

@Charge the Guns.

I understand the point you  make re maximum movement and re- reading that paragraph agree that your interpretation is better than mine. I have only recently come back to Pike and Shotte rules, literally in the last two months, having last played in 2017 with a previous club, so still getting to grips with some of the subtleties and my new club mates have never played. I have a copy of “ To Kill a King”, but we are using the BCW Mods that “ Wargames Designs” put together before “To Kill a King” came out, so have  not taken  much notice of the special rules. The  “Salvo” rule is something I might make use of next time my NMA takes on the Scottish Covenanters! Clearly not without  risk, but with First Fire and Close Range  bonuses, should give a good chance of a successful outcome.

I have always thought that the move/shoot confers a significant advantage on an attacker (but perhaps that was what the writers wanted in their games?) and might try the shoot/move when we next play. Our own  club rules – which are very different to WG – use that sequence, but also use simultaneous movement with a shooting advantage to stationary units.

[Dave Morris]

Swedish musketeers (and McColla’s Irish brigade in Montrose’s campaign, who used similar tactic) get Hand to Hand of 4, whereas most musketeers only get 3. That reflects the Swedish salvo just before contact. If you wanted to, you could order an advance to within 6 inches before giving fire.Swedes have First Fire rule, so get 1 extra firing dice on first time of firing. Being within 6 inches means you get +1 on firing dice score. That should give you a good chance of disordering the enemy, so making their return fire less effective. You also have a possibility of causing excess casualties from fire, especially if you have managed to get some artillery hits on them,  so they are shaken and need a break test, which they may fail. If they  stand, they get to  fire at you, but probably only with 2 dice and, hopefully, a penalty for disorder. The following move you order the Charge, with a good chance of issuing the order and using your 4 combat dice against them.

This is, of course, just my take on it, but it seems to be within the spirit of the rules. If the folk you are playing with want to play it differently, it’s your game to enjoy.

[Dave Morris]

I am not assuming anything; simply pointing out that, in my opinion (which  is obviously not yours)  it is against  “the spirit  of the rules”. If you want to  advance and fire before finally charging in, give that as your order, don’t try to gain unfair advantage from bad luck on your dice throw or a miscalculation of distance by effectively changing your order to “advance as far as you can and fire,  before attempting to charge to contact in the next move”. We shall have to agree to  disagree, but as we are unlikely to meet on the field of honour, it is of no consequence. Good morrow to you Sirrah.

[Dave Morris]

I think “ Charge the Guns” is technically correct and there is probably some historical justification for firing immediately before charging, however my feeling is that to do so when you have not got enough command points to make contact is against the spirit of the rules. I refer you to the section “ State your Intention to Charge” halfway down p59. The final paragraph of this section has the following sentence : “ This rule isn’t intended to stop players taking a casual approach to such things, only to ensure that no unfair advantage is conferred, or embarrassment caused, when they do.”

IMHO  allowing firing when the commander has miscalculated distances or has gambled on getting enough moves to make contact does  confer an “unfair advantage”,  as it raises the possibility of that firing disrupting the supposed target of the Charge. This would make it less likely that the defending unit’s own fire would disrupt or shake their opponents when they give Closing Fire. In other words, it may be possible, but a Gentleman would accept his poor judgement and take the consequences!

 

[Dave Morris]

Page 83 explains how they are used in these rules (which may not be as used in reality). They have one free mount or dismount move per turn and only fire dismounted.

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