Air Strike against target with escorts in close proximity

[leopard]

How does the situation resolve if say a flight of aircraft wishes to launch a strike against a target but there is not enough space between the target and say an escort vessel for the craft to touch? does the method in the diagram below make sense?

thinking the escort gets moved to make space, but also the escort gets to do its job and in the process gets a chance to fire?

if not, then how is this sort of thing resolved? the idea you can physically block such an attack seems a bit gamey, but so does the idea the escorts won’t be able to fire and given the game is meant to be “point to point” anyway this approach seems to make sense but would value thoughts

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[Nat]

if theres not the room for the flight to be placed then it cant go there… dont forget that flights have no turn limits in their movement and can always fly over the ship to be placed on the otherside… + they just need to be touching any part of the base to be able to attack a ship.

out of experiance… you really want Dive Bombers to go after destroyers not any other type of ship.

[leopard]

seems a bit on the gamey side that you can physically block an attack from the air with a ship on the surface “getting in the way”, especially a dive bomber, torpedo bomber could see a larger ship blocking a smaller one but not the other way round, idea that a few destroyers can make a carrier or other high value target immune to air attack just feels wrong – they should be able to make such an attack a lot more dangerous but to physically stop it?

especially when they cannot stop an actual surface vessel making an attack where they have a lot more chance to actually be in the way

can see dive bombers obliterating destroyers being a decent way to remove them given they will likely one hit kill them – though someone slowing destroyers down to screen larger ships is begging to get them sunk with gunfire.

I do like how streamlined the air rules are, but it feels a bit “40k” if you get my drift to be able to physically block an attack using something that “in reality” doesn’t get in the way, while denying the blocker the ability to attack the attacker when thats sort of its job..

[Enioch]

Given that the Warlord FAQ eviscerated DP guns, body-blocking is currently the only way escorts can effectively defend larger ships. Yes, it’s gamey, but unless you’re willing to homerule more effective long-range AA, there’s gotta be some way for escorts to…well, escort.

Which without body blocking, they would currently be 100% unable to do.

[leopard]

Not seen the changes to DP guns.. only really have had one test airstrike that included a single DP equipped destroyer so it worked but not amazingly well.. will have a look at the changes.

this is part of the point made elsewhere about what counts as moving over the escort, given its meant to be just a single point

I *hate* gamey stuff like this, really spoils the immersion when you stop thinking like a ships captain and start thinking like a Speeece Murine

[Enioch]

Not seen the changes to DP guns

Back in the day, most people assumed that DP guns fired with the rest of the AA, after movement and before gunnery.

This is not the case, as the FAQ specified.

DP guns can only engage air targets in the gunnery phase. This means that an incoming airstrike can activate before you get the chance to fire your DP guns (or after a single ship has fired its DP guns, if you have the initiative) and they only have to receive Local / dedicated AA Battery fire before that.

Essentially, if you time your airstrike properly, you can weave past the escort screen and just focus all your planes on the big targets behind them and the “AA escorts” cannot use their DPs to fire at the planes before they drop their payloads.

Yes, this means that e.g. a Fletcher AA screen is essentially neutered, unless you literally body-block.

[leopard]

DP armed escorts though do have longer range so an “outer perimeter” works, well sort of.. have found the FAQ and its slightly disappointing to see rules encouraging the “carpark” formation approach instead of taking great delight in punishing it. Guess this is where you need to pick your ships carefully and pay attention to movement to try to make it harder to swoop in.

have noted this as one of the many reasons I ditched “Cruel Seas”, the ability of a strike unit to start far enough out you can’t hit it, then in a single turn close & strike before you get a chance to fire is quite frankly ridiculous.

flak screen is something that should be operating constantly, when even a dedicated flak cruiser (say AD: 3 DP) is probably only lobbing a single dice (half, rounded down) when its doing its job perhaps something is a tad wrong somewhere. Makes the few ships that do have ranged AA other than DP more useful, but only as outer screens.

[Enioch]

If your DP operates as a normal AA gun, most of the AA problems disappear.

You’ve just sprinted your airplanes into the enemy formation to snipe the BB? Say hello to its 5 DD escorts within 9 inches that contribute with an extra 10 DP dice before you can activate your plane attack (and its own Local / dedicated AA).

But now, DP is essentially irrelevant in defending the fleet ; all it can do is punish planes after they have sniped the BB.

Anyway, DP rounds AD up not down.

[leopard]

seems there is enough “gamey” bits around aircraft that for now likely not bothering with them, so far finding ~700 points to ~1,000 points nice and its hard to stick a decent sized carrier in that, build a scouting fleet around it and still have something able to do a bit of damage.

in effect if I wanted to play “Warhammer: ww2 Navy” I would, the rest of the rules are better than that. I’d go for “house rules” but not much chance locally of that, so easier to avoid it as an issue.. so far the only other aircraft people have are the small amounts from the starter fleets but to date not seen them on the table..

Given I have enough 1:600 scale fleet air arm models to equip the actual fleet air arm probably not a huge issue.. bring on the stats for Lancasters, Wellingtons & Mosquitoes and will be easy to avoid air strikes totally.

[Dale]

So does anyone currently just house rule to let the DP operate with the other AA fire as a normal AA gun?  It cannot then fire normally that round correct?

[Nat]

Some people do…and yes a ship may either fire as normal or fire using the DP trait (half max range and half AD, both rounding down) if a ship has 2 light gun batteries with DP they don’t both have to fire the same way if you don’t want them to

 

One House rule is – at the start of the gunnery phase, before the AA step both players may declear if any ship is using DP. If they do that ships light guns can fire in the AA step as per the DP rules.  Ships that don’t declear at the start of the phase can’t then use the DP trait when they activate.

 

 

 

 

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by Nat.

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