Beta Stat Cards 1

[Renko]

Not sure if everyone here is aware but on the Blood Red Skies Ready Room page on Facebook we’re posting up Aircraft Cards based on some of the beta test stats. These “Leaks” have been approved by Andy & Warlord and add a bit more choice. They are all by Martin Evans.

Attachments:

1. 

   109f.jpg
   

2. 

   109G.jpg
   

3. 

   A6M2-Zero.jpg
   

4. 

   m202.jpg
   

[Renko]

and more

Attachments:

1. 

   P39-Sov.jpg
   

2. 

   P39-US.jpg
   

3. 

   Spit-LF.jpg
   

4. 

   Spitfire-V.jpg
   

[Koin-Koin]

Thanks a lot for sharing it here. FB is pain to browse when you don’t have an account and secure a minimum your browsing as I do.

I may not use those card soon, but it’s always good to have more options available.

[Mark Barker]

Nice to see the betas, but those top speeds include some seriously optimistic manufacturer figures and will need to be pruned a bit..

Who would have guessed for example that the P-39 was faster than the Spitfire V ?

Answer:- It wasn’t, that 370 mph value (itself reduced from the 390mph of the turbo-supercharger equipped prototype) was achieved in a test to meet a contract for the RAF but at the cost of special measures in production to achieve a smooth paint finish and the deletion of 200lbs of equipment, neither of which were carried forward into production deliveries.

In tests at Boscombe Down the aircraft could actually manage 355 mph in service trim (i.e. no faster than the Spitfire Mk1 and 20 mph slower than the Spit Vs already in service) and its performance fell off rapidly at altitude.

The P-39 was never accepted for widespread squadron service in the RAF and the majority of the aircraft went to Russia or were requisitioned by the US to go to the Pacific.

In game terms the top speed is a solid 7, 8 should be reserved for true 390/400 mph class aircraft such as the 190A, 109G and Spit IX.

Mark Barker
UK

[Renko]

Hi Mark

Designers choice at the moment – they’re the figures Andy went with. His logic as I understand it being that we would get into exactly this discussion based on conflicting sources so he went with the highest quoted. You (or I) may not agree but that’s how we are where we are

[Mark Barker]

Hi Renko

Yes, I know – I had the same discussion with Andy on the Ju-88 because the beta top speed for that was based on an equally dodgy Luftwaffe record ‘timed run’ that was exploited for propaganda purposes.

Using ‘highest reported’ is a risky premise on which to base game stats, using the same logic I look forward to the Mk I Hurricane being speed ‘8’ based on the famous timed run from Scotland to Northolt when one clocked around 400mph, press reports neglecting to mention the 100 mph tailwind blowing at the time !

Unless I’ve got the reasons for Bolt Action’s title wrong, it doesn’t base a soldier’s move distance on how fast Usain Bolt can run …

I’ll put detail feedback directly into Andy – I don’t do Facebook – shame the Warlord forum does not get the same ‘official’ attention as the FB page and thanks for giving these cards greater visibility.

As a dyed-in-the-wool air gamer I’ve been really impressed by BRS’s ability to pull in players who “normally don’t do air games”.

For existing air gamers (myself included) to part with their cash for supplements/cards etc the performance data has to be credible. The poor performance of the Airacobra compared to manufacturer’s promises was notorious at the time.

Of course such things would never happen nowadays, which is why we can have such confidence in the diesel emissions figures of the cars around us !

Best regards,

Mark Barker
West Sussex
UK

[Renko]

Hi Guys, here are a couple more

Attachments:

1. 

   P51-Speed-8.jpg
   

2. 

   B17E.jpg
   

3. 

   Dauntless.jpg
   

4. 

   Hayate.jpg
   

[Koin-Koin]

Thanks for sharing

[Andy Chambers]

We did indeed trim the speeds down on some of those earlier sets of stat cards in light of feedback.

I’ll ask Ken to repost the ones we updated, please keep in mind these are still just play test stats and not official yet so your feedback is greatly appreciated.

[Cat Shot One]

I appreciate the sharing, since I’m also of the non-FB type!

I reckon the question of aircraft speeds is a very difficult one due to the different versions and engine configurations which exist of many WWII planes over the course of the conflict. Additionally, it is a question of height.

Concerning the Emil/Spit confrontation of the core BRS game, I would like to quote numbers from Osprey Duel 5, “Spitfire vs Bf 109 (Battle of Britain)” by Tony Holmes from 2007, p. 31:

Bf 109E-3 ———- Spitfire IA
Powerplant
l,175hpDB601Aa —– l,030hp Merlin III

Max speed
348mph at 15,000ft – 346mph at 15,000ft

[Mark Barker]

and in the same book (p.22), he gives a top speed for the Spitfire of 365mph, about the highest I’ve ever seen !

You do wish authors would give the sources for their numbers – without that they really are just numbers.

The Osprey books are very nice, to cross-check the techie stuff you need the doorstop ‘Spitfire the History’ (Morgan and Shacklady) or more digestibly I’d recommend ‘The Spitfire Story’ by Alfred Price.

There you can track from the official flight test reports (normally at Boscombe Down, an independent test establishment to the company figures – very important) how the prototype Spit develops into the production variants and the effects of various changes:- constant speed prop, 100 octane fuel, 70+ lbs of armour, better radios, IFF equipment etc on speed and climb performance.

When putting a scenario together for early 1940 you might well decide that for that game the 109s have the speed edge and will go first – who’s to stop you ?

Or you might give a particular ace a speed edge and there may be cards that do this anyway.

‘Dolfo’ Galland had engine upgrades to his personal machines (I don’t know what ‘rank has its privileges’ translates to in German but the concept is definitely the same) and Doouglas Bader was at the front of the queue to get his Mk V Spit fitted with metal ailerons in 1941 and never mind the paperwork.

Famously by the time the letter arrived asking who had authorised the installation to Bader’s squadron and who was going to pay, the official making the request was referred to to Wing Commander Bader, address Stalag Luft 3 who would no doubt be pleased to provide a full explanation …

[Renko]

We will be updating the betas “soon”. Martin Evans who does them for us is currently busy doing paid work so we may have to wait til he can get a bit of spare time

[Tokhuah]

It was discussed in the ready room that the 109 will be 8 not 9.

[Renko]

Yes there are a couple of nudges needed to the beta cards, but that’s exactly why they’re Beta’s. As I explained we are reliant on Martin who will get them done as soon as he gets some time free – cant rush him to do our stuff for free when he is working on a paid project 🙂

[Mark Barker]

It was discussed in the ready room that the 109 will be 8 not 9.

That’s good – having put initial feedback in on the 109’s speed, that’s the kind of response I really miss having access to.

Looking forward to seeing the revised betas when Martin stops inconveniently allowing real life to intrude.

Several of the later war Axis fighters (including the 109s and the Hayate) had access to Methanol/Water or Nitrous Oxide boost to provide an emergency power kick that could bring them on a par with the P-51D, Thunderbolt and Griffon Spitfire in level speed for a short time.

GM-1/MW-50 boost would make a good card to have in the deck.

Mark

[Author]

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