Clearing Obstacles using Explosives

[Master Chief]

This is similar to my question on clearing barbed wire using bangalore torpedoes.

Explosives: Armed with rings of explosives, these engineers can blow up all manner of fortification. Used in the same way HE is used to blow up buildings, bunkers, bridges minefields, or tank traps. Explosives have an HE rating of 4″ using 3d6 to blow up these targets. To use explosives the engineer team must start their turn adjacent to the target then Advance at least 4″ away from the target. At that point the explosives detonate and the player tests to see if the target is destroyed. To detonate explosives all friendly units must be outside of 4″ of the target (refer to buildings, bunkers & minefield rules see 178).

 

I am assuming the follwing:

(a) “At that point the explosives detonate” refers to an automatic hit (which makes sense since it is an explosive being detonated)

(b) “tests to see if the target is destroyed” refers to rolling 3D6 to determine the number of hits, and the target is destroyed if 6 or more hits are obtained as stated on page 195 of the Overlord book “Blowing it up” rules for minefields.

[Jaesen]

There are more rules about engineers and usage of explosives in Duel in the Sun and Western Desert.  You may want to check there!

[Jacob Carter]

Those assumptions seem to be good, it appears to work the exactly same as hitting a building with a heavy howitzer.  Just remember that buildings are destroyed on 10 hits, bunkers are destroyed with 12, and you cannot kill models in bunkers with HE.

My only question would be if the explosives kill models in normal buildings?  It could swing either way as the rule seems purpose built to destroy buildings yet explosives that powerful will kill people even if the target isn’t destroyed.

[Master Chief]

Good point. My own view is that if the building is not destroyed (less than 10 hits from 3D6), units within are not affected, presumably the building cover protected them.

If 10 or more hits were achieved, the building is destroyed and all units within are killed accordingly based on the 2nd edition rules for destroyed buildings (page 125).

I now also assume other targets e.g. minefields, barbed wire, etc will be destroyed with 6 hits or more, based on the “Blowing it Up” rules for minefields.

[Master Chief]

These 2 points also came up on explosives:

(a) Single or multiple use: I assume explosives have multiple use, like anti-tank grenades.

(b) Attacking enemy units: I assume the engineer could “advance” 4 inches away from an enemy unit and detonate the explosive. The enemy unit will be hit by HE 4″ with number of hits to be determined by 4″ template.

[Steeljackal]

These 2 points also came up on explosives:
(a) Single or multiple use: I assume explosives have multiple use, like anti-tank grenades.

I agree, all squad equiped with explosive like AT grenades or bangalore, so can use explosive many times.

(b) Attacking enemy units: I assume the engineer could “advance” 4 inches away from an enemy unit and detonate the explosive. The enemy unit will be hit by HE 4″ with number of hits to be determined by 4″ template.

I agree, then unit can attack a building and make 3d6 hits to unit inside, like normal HE 4′

• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Steeljackal.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Steeljackal.

[Master Chief]

The hits required to destroy fortifications known so far:

(1) Barbed wire 6 hits (latest FAQ)

(2) Minefields 6 hits (Blowing it Up rules)

(3) Buildings 10 hits (2nd Edition rules)

(4) Bunkers 12 hits (2nd Edition rules)

 

I may have missed it but what about other fortifications such as tank traps like Dragon’s teeth etc?

[Steeljackal]

I remember reading somewhere in the “D-Day Overlord” manual where it said something like “… or other obstacles …”.
For me 6 hits to destroy even anti-tank obstacles.

EDIT
I confirm that the Bangalore regulation says “… or other obstacles …”
and also in “Normandy Fortifications” chapter, “Anti-Tank ditches” paragraph: “…combat engineer can clear adiacent strip by receiving an DOWN order,…”

6+ hits for barbed wire, minefield and others obstacles (then also anti-tank)

• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Steeljackal.

[Stuart Harrison]

Problem with this bit:

“(b) Attacking enemy units: I assume the engineer could “advance” 4 inches away from an enemy unit and detonate the explosive. The enemy unit will be hit by HE 4″ with number of hits to be determined by 4″ template.”

You can’t start a turn adjacent to an enemy unit to place the explosive – you would have had to breach the 1″ gap rule between units at some point, so the opportunity can’t arise.

[Master Chief]

Good point. It still works as long as the engineer unit is 1 inch away from the target unit. It could place the explosives at its current position and advance 4 inches away. The target unit will still be covered by the HE 4in template. I have amended my assumption below.

(b) Attacking enemy units: I assume the engineer unit that is at least 1 inch away from an enemy unit could “advance” 4 inches away from an enemy unit its current position and detonate the explosive. The enemy unit will be hit by HE 4″ with number of hits to be determined by 4″ template.

[Master Chief]

I confirm that the Bangalore regulation says “… or other obstacles …”
and also in “Normandy Fortifications” chapter, “Anti-Tank ditches” paragraph: “…combat engineer can clear adiacent strip by receiving an DOWN order,…”

6+ hits for barbed wire, minefield and others obstacles (then also anti-tank)

Thanks, I guess this is what we have to go with for now, until further changes are published in FAQs.

 

[Steeljackal]

If enemy are inside a building or bunker, they take hits.

If enemy are outside, I don’t know: explosive special rule says “…these engineer can blow up buildings, bunkers, bridges, minefield, minefield or tank traps. Explosive have an HE rating of 4” using 3D6 to blow up these targets. To use…”
Rulebook speaking about explosive only like a special rule, a special equipment to destroy target like building (non enemies), don’t speak about explosive like a weapon.

By raw reading I think explosive can be used against building,… but not directly against outside infantry. But since the regulation is as always poorly written, I think it is enough to agree before the game on the use of explosives.

 

[Master Chief]

Stalingrad book Page 133:

DEMOLITION CHARGES
New option for Pioneer and Assault Engineer Units.
New Options – One man may be equipped with Demolition Charges in addition to his other weapons at a cost of +5 pts

Special Rules
– Demolition Charges: Once per game, an engineer unit may use a Down order to place a demolition
charge token at any point adjacent to the man equipped with the Demolition Charge. If the engineer
unit is inside a building, the demolition charge may be placed on the floor directly below the engineer
unit. The following turn, the unit must be issued either a Down order or a Run order. If a Run order is given, the unit must end its move out of range of the explosion, whereupon the charge immediately explodes as HE (4″) centred on the token. If a Down order is issued, the unit can defuse the charge and take the token back for future use, or simply reposition the token at any point adjacent to the man equipped with the Demolition Charge, as above.

 

This is similar to the assumptions I had made for explosives previously, except that

(a) it is single use

(b) it can be defused and repositioned

(c) it uses a Down followed by a Run order, so it takes 2 turns to detonate

(d) it can only be given to one man

(e) it costs 2 points more

 

Contradicting rules again.

[Steeljackal]

Poorly written rules, many repetitions, conflicting rules 🤷‍♂️

To avoid disputes, I would follow a rough reading of the rules. So the Russians follow their “Demolition Charges” rule and the Americans their “explosives” rule:
Americans can put explosives on obstacles and buildings.
Having said that by agreeing between players, the rules can be merged together.

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