Forward Observer Teams – what happens to them?

[Kar98k]

For the original (aka First Edition) Bolt Action rules there was a question (on the old forum) about what happens to forward observer teams (Air or Artillery) after completing their mission. The official answer was that after completing their mission, forward observers teams leave the combat area since they are not front line combat troops. This of course made sense.

This is how we play Second Edition. Especially for Forward Air Observer teams because those units “consists of an air force liaison officer”.

However, a discussion came up recently and we looked through the 2nd Edition rules as well as the newest 2nd Edition FAQ. There is no mention of what happens to forward observer teams after they complete their mission.

So, in Second Edition of Bolt Action, what happens to Forward Observer teams (Air and Artillery) after they complete there mission? Does the ruling from the First Edition still apply?

[Stuart Harrison]

Observers didn’t disappear after using their fire mission/air strike even under first edition – they’ve always stuck around unless house ruled otherwise generating the tactic of having them board a transport to fire it’s weapons.

Sounds like someone got mixed up with the following text from the first edition “Team” rule, p51, after talking about exceptional damage removing the entire team – “This might seem harsh but it avoids worrying about ineffective odd men and is only fair in terms of the removal of order dice and awarding of victory points as described later” – who would ever call in a strike if it costs you a unit (and it’s dice) to do so?

People often tried to mistakenly apply that to HQs when they lost the main model and observers that had used their strike/barrage. Every time I say it come up, it was confirmed they stay.

[invisible officer]

I think so. It is logical and there was no other note in the rules.

Forward Air Observers had been highly trained specialists and even artillery FO are only wasted as infantry if there was no escape.
Like my own father, FO in encirclement battle of Bobruisk, following the last round of the battery the men are used as infantry. He survived badly wounded, becoming POW.
If possible such experts even got flown out in encirclement battle.

So I would say it should depend on Scenario. Normally they would not Play the hero.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by invisible officer.

[Kar98k]

Sounds like someone got mixed up with the following text from the first edition “Team” rule, p51

Nope, it was from an old Q&A from the old BA forum. I hope the old forum was archived someplace.

Bolt Action is more of a game depicting Hollywood war films and not a true historical simulator. However, even in Hollywood war films and shows you don’t see forward observers attacking and charging the enemy. They are usually hiding, and when finished with their mission or threatened, they bug out.

I agree with Invisible Officer above. Normally they would not play the hero. There might be a scenario where they do not have a choice, but this wouldn’t be a typical game.

So, in Bolt Action Second Edition, what do players do with their forward observer teams after the team has completed their mission?

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by Kar98k.

[Steeljackal]

Like other HQ team (not medic for Genevaa Convention), can fire with their weapon. Indeed in army list book you can choose what weapons have this team.
After fire mission is over, FO team continue to fight with their weapons, and can hold Key position.

And rightly so. You cannot remove from the table the FO team, as it is still a unit that your opponent can eliminate to get a victory point. And likewise Fo team cannot automatically be removed as a loss if it is not attacked and destroyed.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by Steeljackal.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by Steeljackal.

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[invisible officer]

I would not object if my game partner use them as infantry cannon fodder.

But I would set my in move to the table border, not let them die. Family reasons.

[Kar98k]

Stuart, good job finding the “discussed frequently on Bolt Action facebook pages”

Yes, rules as written, forward observer (art or air) teams basically become small infantry teams. However, this seems far-fetched even for Bolt Action. Maybe what is need is a good official rule addition. Maybe something like…

Not Front-Line combat units:
Forward Observer units cannot be given and Ambush order, and are ignored for the purposes of determining control of objectives. Forward Observer units cannot assault into close quarters, but will fight in close quarters if assaulted. In addition, they cannot move to within 12″ of enemy units, but enemy units can be placed or move closer to them. If a Forward Observer unit is within 12″ of an enemy unit, it must attempt to move away if given an Advance or Run order.

[Lee Brennan]

I respectively disagree with your suggestion. The observers are looking for targets so Ambush is a legit tactic. You spot a Infantry squad trying to outflank…. In comes the artillery strike. They are regularly trained Infantry. Heck many squads had a radio guy. No difference.

[invisible officer]

“They are regularly trained Infantry”

Normally not. In Wehrmacht for example the artilery FO was from artilllery. Basic training with handheld arms some time ago at home base.
The Training manual stated that the arms are just for Nahverteidigung. Self defence if attacked.

And Radio Equipment or telephone with cable.

They used the B-Stelle Batterie-Beobachtungs-Stelle. Chosen by the battery CO it had to offer good view and good camo. It was never to be before the own lines.

In Panzerartillery it was in an armored vehicle, often with a dummy cannon. Hiding, not fighting.

Using the command circles the VB = FO) could call fire from other artillery units.

Only in Bolt Action the job ends with a single fire mission.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by invisible officer.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by invisible officer.

[Kar98k]

“They are regularly trained Infantry.”

Lee, a lot of sources I have read say differently, and not just in the Wehrmacht that Invisible Officer talks about above.

“The observers are looking for targets so Ambush is a legit tactic. You spot a Infantry squad trying to outflank…. In comes the artillery strike.”

Lee, that goes against the rules. Forward Observers cannot use Ambush to call in a strike. See pages 83 and 85. “…when the forward artillery observer unit receives a Fire order (not from Ambush), the observer can…”

The “cannot be given an Ambush order” in the Not Front-Line combat units above is simply for their small arms. Mostly for the reasons Invisible Officer explained above, but also the “Hiding, not fighting.”

There is also a typo. It should be “an” and not “and”. The corrected text is below:

Not Front-Line combat units:
Forward Observer units cannot be given an Ambush order, and are ignored for the purposes of determining control of objectives. Forward Observer units cannot assault into close quarters, but will fight in close quarters if assaulted. In addition, they cannot move to within 12″ of enemy units, but enemy units can be placed or move closer to them. If a Forward Observer unit is within 12″ of an enemy unit, it must attempt to move away if given an Advance or Run order.

[Kar98k]

[Nat]

@Kar98K …. 2 things that say to me that your house rule is a bad idea ..

1, its a game,
2, its already hard enough justifing the 100+ points to bring one as their one attack is so random in effectiveness. To make them more restrictive would push them to out of general playablity (and be replaced by two trucks with MMGs!)

[Kar98k]

@Nat…. Yes, I completely agree with you. It’s just a game.

That being said, this is not Warhammer 40K scifi were things can be fabricated or taken as needed. This is Warhammer WW2 were things are less scifi, so where is the harm of adding a bit more historical accuracy.

This is very similar to the Medic unit and the Geneva Convention rule (page 83). Before it was all changed in v2, I remember when Medic units were basically small infantry teams (with a 6” heal bonus) running around causing pins and controlling objectives. When someone said that this didn’t seem realistic, there was another that said “It’s just a game”.

Even before Medics were official changed in v2, Bolt Action players were using something similar to the Geneva Convention in their v1 games.

[Stuart Harrison]

Discussed frequently on Bolt Action facebook pages. General consensus is they remain in play as there is nothing suggesting they are removed.

Examples (found searching by “observer after”):

Q – “Does anyone here sometimes turn their command team/ observers it a roaming SMG/ rifle team and use em to plug weak points?”

A – “After the observer calls in his strike it’s a small kill team”
A – “As soon as my Artillery observer has called in their strike, they tend to find some objective to babysit, or otherwise roam the board looking for small teams to SMG/squads that would benefit from receiving an extra pin if modeled with a rifle.”
A – “Yup. my officers and artillery observer (after calling in) are always armed with smg’s and always up with the rest of the infantry.”

https://www.facebook.com/groups/boltaction/permalink/1207335899436348/

and

“Usually put two men with my observer once strike is called in they are a small squad.”
“He’s armed with whatever is on the model so unless it’s the turn he brings his arty barrage down (fire order) he can act like any other unit. I use this guy as he’s got a smg”
“Yeah they can be another small rifle team after calling down the artillery. Nice and fire as normal”
“https://www.facebook.com/groups/boltaction/permalink/798952836941325/

another

Q – “Hiya recently something was bought up about a Forward Artillery/Air Observer not being able to fire there rifles even after they have called in there artillery or air strike. And that they can only fire there weapon in defensive fire. Is this true or false?”
A – “FAO/FOO can fire either their personal weapon or their special ability (air strike or artillery). Once the special ability has been used, they revert to a normal infantry squad for all intents and purposes.”
A – “Not in the same turn. After he’s called in the strike he can use his normal weapons.”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/boltaction/permalink/918456608324280/

[Stuart Harrison]

“So, in Bolt Action Second Edition, what do players do with their forward observer teams after the team has completed their mission?”

Discussed many times as part of threads on the Bolt Action Facebook pages – here are a few examples of comments on the “Bolt Action” page, there are more on “Bolt Action International”, and “Bolt Action Australia/New Zealand”.

“After the observer calls in his strike it’s a small kill team”
“As soon as my Artillery observer has called in their strike, they tend to find some objective to babysit, or otherwise roam the board looking for small teams to SMG/squads that would benefit from receiving an extra pin if modeled with a rifle.”
“Yup. my officers and artillery observer (after calling in) are always armed with smg’s and always up with the rest of the infantry.”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/boltaction/permalink/1207335899436348/

“Usually put two men with my observer once strike is called in they are a small squad.”
“Yeah they can be another small rifle team after calling down the artillery. Nice and fire as normal”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/boltaction/permalink/798952836941325/

” FAO/FOO can fire either their personal weapon or their special ability (air strike or artillery). Once the special ability has been used, they revert to a normal infantry squad for all intents and purposes.”
“In that case, of course they can fire as a normal unit, not just for defenceive fire. Depending on what nationally they are, they can even have weapons they are modeled with. For Germans, give them a Assault rifle and get a cheeky 5pts for free 😉”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/boltaction/permalink/918456608324280/

“Once your arty observer has called in his strike he good for going after the objective your enemy isn’t Guarding. Or manning the gun/guns on a transport”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/boltaction/permalink/567545606748717/

There is no suggestion of the unit being removed after calling in their strike/barrage in the rules, and as you can see by many discussions, it is generally played that they remain in the game.

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