FUBAR vehicles panic reation

[the mysteron]

When a Vehicle suffers a FUBAR and a panic reaction to ‘execute a run order and move as fast as possible towards the closet table edge’, I can’t see how this can happen in many cases. For example in my game last night a tank after having moved straight on 9″ from the middle of long table edge suffered such a panic reaction. Performing a ‘run’ reaction only allows one 90′ pivot. So what happens? Turns 90′ and moves towards the distant flank edge! Performs an advance reverse order at half speed? Perhaps because ‘the unit can no longer move for some reason, it goes Down instead’?

I’ve probably answered my question here. Obviously should the vehicle have the special recce run ability or be a angle which would allow such a run order towards the table edge it can perform this reaction.

Thanks for reading

[Nat]

the wording is a bit ???? and needs cross referencing other parts of the rulebook, the original v3 articles and checking the errata/FAQ… (and I dont have a rulebook near me at the moment to give page numbers !)

but the meaning of the rule is IF you get a failed order check (with visable enemy in your front arc) / FURBAR runaway result you must move towards the closest board edge at the fastest possible speed (so *advance* or RUN halving if need), making the minimum number of turns needed to get round an obstacle /friendly unit(s) in the way.  If you are unable to move (immoblised for example)  then yes the order is automatically changed to DOWN!

If you can move then you MUST move at *Advance* speed to the full distance OR off the table – yes this is the easiest way to kill a tiger… to day my kill record is 3 dead tigers.. 2 by pins and them failing the order check and running off the table (the other by a luck shot at point blank range when I mini swarmed it with 3 light tanks:p)

EDIT – sorry reverse is at advance speed as standard.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Nat.
• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Nat.
• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Nat.

[Capt Scarlett]

OK,  this is how it went;

I tried to get my Panzer III to fire, it had a pip, so needed to pass an order test.

The  mysteron used his special powers and made me throw a double six, which of course is FUBAR.

I then rolled again, result of which was  panic, move at the run directly to the nearest table edge.

The nearest table edge being 9 inches directly behind it.

However, as I understand it, it can’t turn 360 degrees and run move?

Therefore only turning 180 degrees, it couldn’t move towards the nearest table edge.

What should it have done?

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Capt Scarlett.

[Nat]

1st off… my bad, I put run.. its reverse at best possible speed, normally advance speed.

So the panzer III reverses at best possible speed backwards towards the closest board edge

This would be advance speed halved – or 4.5″ as its a reverse.

It being a tank will run over any standard obstacles like a hedge,  if it reaches something it cant go over (a building for example) it will make a pivot of up to 90deg in the direction that is shortest before it can make another pivot back to the same heading.  So if the building is 5″ wide with 2″ to the left and 3″ to the right you turn and head towards (backwards remember) the left edge so you can then pivot again and continue reversing backwards towards the table edge.

So if it was a rece tank then the reverse would NOT be halved and it would have gone back 9″ and touched the table edge so gone bang!
If it was a bi-derectional steering tracked vehicle (such as Universal Carrier) then it would reverse at a RUN and gone 18″…

As it stats RUN command you cant shoot.

EDIT – TLDR – The moving vehicle must end its move as close to the point on the board edge, that is in a direct line from where it starts to the closest board edge, as it possibly can having made the fewest deviations in direction.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Nat.
• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Nat.
• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Nat.

[Peter]

I still don’t understand that there was really someone at Warlord Games who thought that these rules made sense and were useful for the game.

[Nat]

As said elsewhere …. BA isnt a historical refight game

Its a beer & preztel game based on Hollywood /comics based on real life… its since been distilled towards a tournament game from its first edition.  So some rules are there for game balance, others to artificially promote the use of other units or tactics…. and yes even with these some of the rules are a bit??? armoured vehicles retreating on a failed order ISNT one of them – its to balance that fact that they are easier to take in multiples, so you now play them more aggressively rather than leaving them on the back table edge – which opens up the options for your opponent to be able to take them out.

It took me a couple of years to get my head round it and actually fit into Warlords design space mentality – mainly because I’ve spent that time looking at Victory at Sea helping to make the unoffical version more of a pickup game (heading towards tournament / playable by strangers).

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by Nat.
• This reply was modified 1 month ago by Nat.

[Peter]

It’s not about balance. This is lazy gameplay writing.
I invest money and time in a model and then it gets destroyed because of a random dice result because it just drives away?

You give the player the opportunity to use more vehicles. Then you weaken them with FUBAR, failed order tests and this ridiculous MG rule.

At the same time, you make all anti-tank weapons more expensive. A one-shot Panzerfaust has increased in points by 300%.

Making one thing worse to make the other thing also worse is no design mentality. Maybe WLG should stop writing rules and just produce plastic miniatures.

[Nat]

… TBH I’d settle for getting a pickup gamer (or two) to proof read they systems rulebooks before printing!

Now you’ll never please 100% of people 100% of the time… [game companies tend to aim for 80% of readers understanding the book  if I remember correctly(!)…] and disgruntled people tend to be louder than happy people…but even the positive reviews I’ve seen tend to have multiple negatives which for a less establish game would stop its development.

The issues (as I see them) with v3 are:
Knee jerk rules put in by Tournament players for tournament reasons.
No clear design space focus (is it a B&P game, is it a historical refight, is it a tournament game, is it a framework, is it vehicle or infantry heavy???)
Little consistency between publications (a v2 issue… then brought into v3 by NOT bringing the new campagin unit types & equipment in to the core rules – Chaplains for example)
Some rules seem to be very GW (beef something up to sell the models, then nurff it later to promote sales of another model)
Release of v3 rules is TOOOOO long and drawn out (who signed off 15 months between core rules & Armies of Japan???)
Clarity of written rules missing (as Peter mentioned elsewhere FAOs, and things that were in the v2 FAQ for YEARS! like Soviet body armour)
The general feeling of the core rules release seem very rushed (missing armies, copy and paste rules and entries from v2 without updating the fixes)

Now some of these things will be missed by new players, so will be dismissed as ‘longer players not liking change’.  And others take a few play throughs to become apparent.

• This reply was modified 1 month ago by Nat.

[Peter]

The topic with V3 starts with the rulebook itself. It is not possible for 80% to fully understand the rules if WL itself explains the rules incorrectly.

Example:
Page 96, diagram14

This diagram is shown incorrectly and the funniest and stupidest thing is that it was shown correctly in V2.
So they deliberately changed a picture, which is now wrong. I have never seen anything like this in any other game system.

The same with the index and the countless cross-references.

Example:
Infoltrator (Index shows page 120)
Page 120 is correct but then… Cross-reference to page 161.
Once on page 161 you find a picture and then you can search. On page 174 you will find the rest of the Infiltrator rule. Why Warlord Games? Why?

Solution:
1. a rule on a topic is on one page and not spread over half the book.
2. if you use cross-references, you write the correct page
3. all pages that have something to do with this topic are also written in the index

Is that really too difficult for this company?

Halftracks have been completely forgotten in the index. Why should you think of a vehicle that was almost only used in ww2? No words.

And that runs through the entire book. Don’t forget, this is the third edition! Years of experience and feedback and you publish such quality.

[Author]

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