Japanese T-14…

[leopard]

A curious beastie the T-14, has decent torpedoes its true, in a game where its most common opponent is very unlikely to actually be hit by one – good for ‘sink the big thing’ missions but not much cop elsewhere.

combined with low speed, fragility that would make glass think is a bit fragile and a lack of secondary weapons (1x20mm and 2x MG).

aware the Japanese navy didn’t put a lot of thought into such craft but the points costs for the T-14 seem a bit out of line with other units, presumably due to the excellent torpedoes that will seldom matter much?

especially when the low hull point count makes them borderline one hit wonders, combined with the low speed of the T-14 makes it evading incoming fire awkward.

Curious as to what its intended role in the game is?

as it seems that even with an experienced crew its not doing enough damage and is still going to go down very quickly unless it catches someone asleep

[invisible officer]

The role? Typical MTB. A Torpedo armed vessel, not intended to fight other tiny boats but kill big ships.

The T 14 was the most built (and best) type of Japanese MBT, built 44/45.
With a 25 mm gun in Standard Version it was better armed than the Vospers in 1940-43 with that double .500 MG.

The IJN staff had little interest in MBT, a weapon with relatively short range. Mostly defensive in the Pacific.

Just 7 T 14 are lost, including those bombed in harbor, that shows that they saw little action.
Similar to the 6.000 (!) Shinyo that sank nothing of note.

You should not forget that most nation’s MTB avoided actions with MTB or MGB. RN officers often thought S-Boot Crews to be acting cowardly by leaving actions as fast as possible. On order!
Cruel sea is for a very British (and US) tactical use.

[William Sheil]

Generally I think points system has been tagged on as a concession for those used to Beer & Pretzel and/or casual club play. I don’t really hold much stock in it. Even if the inexperienced point costs were balanced the flat cost for regular and veteran crews would mean that those levels were not balanced. And the T-14 is a good example of a vessel that is overpriced at all experience levels and roles.

I do actually appreciate that the game is intended more for “scenario-driven… strong narrative” play but I think at the moment we could do with a wider selection of scenarios (e.g. book scenario 8) so people can get the asymmetric matches together.

It also wouldn’t also be too difficult for someone to sit down and re-point the vessels at different experience levels to help with some level of casual or tournament play.

[Renko]

The problem I have with the T-14 is the inclusion of the “Long Lance” which is pure fantasy. It’s a bit annoying to see this sort of thing in what is supposed to be a historical game. The real Long Lance (type 93) was 9 meters long, the T14 boat is 15 meters long… you can see where that will be going.

Not 100% sure what torp was mounted on the T14s but most sources state it was a 450mm (17.5″) type, certainly not the 24″ Long Lance. The only other 450mm Japanese torpedoes I’m aware of were the air dropped ones and the Type 97s used on midget submarines, which were not really any different in performance to any other torpedo in general.

[Richard Walker]

Interesting.
So repoint to use standard torpedos.
As for fights not using torpedos, if using points, then repoint for the game without torpedos

[Renko]

Pretty much. I suppose the problem is durability. There is no explanation of how hull points are arrived at, which is a problem, but the T14 was a surprisingly light boat so probably should be quite vulnerable.

[invisible officer]

Japanese MTB used 45,7 cm torpedoes. Not the 53,4 cm or 61 cm (Lang Lance)

Type 97 (1937) was not used on MTB, only in midget submarines.
Type 98 (1938) Just 130 made.

Type 02 (1942) 800 made and main version used on MTB. Range 3000m at up to 41 kts. There was also the Type 02 Special with reduced range of 2000m
It was a Version of the airborne Type 91

[leopard]

Sounds about right..

I want to like this game, I really do, but there seem to be various issues around this.

Seems the role of Japanese is to be a target for the Americans, which is actually pretty historically accurate given the IJNs lack of focus on smaller craft or defensive tactics at all really.

the points system is way out though, the T-14 is encumbered with the cost of the torpedoes, which looks good, but are borderline useless in most scenarios, and apart from that its essentially unarmed.

15 hull points means one volley from another MTB and down it goes, and with a 20mm and 2x MG the chances of it returning a favour are minimal.

not quite sure how you point cost that.

Suspect the solution is a lot more scenarios, the problem of which will end being that they are going to be decided by the dice rolls for torpedo detonations.

hmm…

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