M24 Chaffee versus M4 Sherman 75mm

[Aidan]

I was thinking of 3d printing a tank for my US army that I will be getting soon, and am debating between the two.

(Regular) The Chaffee is 35 points cheaper with the same armament and does not have the “easily catches fire” rule, but only has 8+ armor compared to the Sherman’s 9+ armor. They both have the “weak sides rule”. The Chaffee can be upgraded to recce for +10 points.

For context, I will be fielding a very infantry heavy veteran force that focuses on mobility and tactics. Lots of rifles and BARs, with some MG and sniper support. So I was leaning towards the Chaffee for its recce rule and cheaper cost. It would also be cheaper to fit a Veteran Chaffee with the gyro gun into the force than a Sherman. Although the Sherman still has more armor.

Thoughts?

[SteveT]

If you are going to be facing historically accurate opponents, then as someone who plays a lot of  German vs US, I would say the German tanks/AT guns won’t care much either way that you have 8 or 9 armour. I know the Chaffe would be more annoying for me to face. Tanks only gets a few good shots per game and you can deny them their best opportunity by using Recce to scoot off at critical moments.  The option for a pintle HMG is good,  classified as “Heavy Weapons” in BA, so it can put pressure on armoured targets or punish veteran infantry targets.

 

 

[Aidan]

Ah I see, thank you very much. I was leaning towards the Chaffee because it looked fun and had recce, and I wanted something unique that doesn’t appear on a US list much. And yeah lol, a Panther’s gun or a Flak 36 won’t care about the armor either way….

[Aidan]

And it’s less of a points sink.

[L.T. Russell]

Our gaming group’s Rules Lawyer is in love with Chaffees, specifically for the recce ability.  You could definitely do worse….

[Aidan]

Thanks, I’ll definitely add the Chaffee to my 1000 point list, or even my 750 point list. 🙂

You have a rules lawyer? What does he do?

[L.T. Russell]

Our group’s Rules Lawyer IS an actual lawyer.  He quibbles about the rules a LOT….

[Aidan]

Ah, I see lol.

I pictured something like him putting one guy in the group on trial for using DAK schtutzen squads with free LMGs in a European battle or something like that….

[L.T. Russell]

Hahaha!  Nah, it usually ends up being stuff like me thinking outside the box and wanting to know why I CAN’T use antitank grenades against Russian Ursus infantry or that NO, his Chaffee doesn’t get a full backwards recce move ’cause it doesn’t have two drivers, like the big German 8-wheeled armored cars.  I advocate common sense and reality, he’s only about what rules are in the book.  A classic argument and the classic description of a “Rules Lawyer”.  Kinda like a “Barracks Lawyer” in the military….

[Aidan]

Oh I see lol! That’s gotta be interesting to watch. Wait, Chaffees get half speed reverse moves, but the German armored cars don’t? That’s interesting. Also what’s Russian Ursus infantry? In theory, since AT grenades are represented by Molotov Cocktails, you should be able to use the against infantry somehow….

[L.T. Russell]

Howdy Aidan!

The big German armored cars; Sdkfz 231 6-rads and 8-rads, Sdkfz 234/1/2 and 3 all have a special ability called “Dual Directional Steering”.  They have a driver facing both forwards AND backwards in the vehicle, with dual controls.  So if they have to recce out of trouble, they get a full movement in reverse….

Ursus infantry are a unit from Konflikt 47.  Basically a genetic experiment manipulating/combining human and bear DNA.  They are close assault MONSTERS, with special abilities like; Strong, Tooth and Claw, Tough, Resilient, Horror.  They are HARD to kill and led me to my love affair with automatic AA cannons….

AT grenades generically represent a number of countries different purpose-made and field expedient munitions for close-assaulting vehicles.  Kinda includes everything from magnetic shape charges, Molotov cocktails, magnetic AT mines, that German grenade thing with 6-7 extra grenade heads strapped around one Potato Masher, etc, etc.  During our Konflikt 47 league, the final scenario involved a bad guy with super Ursus infantry as body guards.  They had an armor rating of 7, like light armored vehicles.  I argued that my Panzer Zestorer unit should be able to use their AT grenades against these monsters, since they’re armored like a vehicle.  Our Rules Lawyer said no, since it’s not covered in the rules.  I counter-argued that the super Ursus aren’t covered in the rules either….but it was his scenario, so his rules.  I lost.  The Zestorer unit blew 3 of them up with their Panzerschrecks, then got torn apart in close combat.  I finally got the other 3 with a Flammespinne light Panzermech, that carries a flamethrower….

[Aidan]

Hey L.T. Russel!

Holy cow, they had a dedicated reverse driver? I gotta research that. Efficiency at its peak…

Wow, that sounds terrifying. So if I ever play Konflikt 47, I need autocannons or a M16 quad HMG, *Takes notes*. I gotta try K47 one day…. But maybe I should start Bolt Acion first lol. Can’t put the cart before the horse.

Ah, ok. Yeah I could see how that would be difficult. On one hand, they aren’t armored vehicles. On the other hand, they got armor. Maybe he should have clarified that before hand. I would’ve said that AT grenades can be used on them because they are pretty much armored cars, like walkers, stats wise.

Hehe now I can’t get that image out of my head of a zestorer blowing up a bear with a Panzerfaust.🤣 Sounds like one heck of a game!

[Aidan]

Also, kind of related to the Chaffee question, I want a Jeep to go in my armored car slot. Would putting a MMG or a HMGon it be best? I’m kinda torn between the two, MMG is cheaper and has more shots. HMG has pen, so it can threaten veterans, soft skins, armored cars, or even light tanks from the side. But it costs 10 more points than a MMG. Thoughts?

[Charles]

I thought vehicles got a half advance rate reverse move, and recce vehicles got a full advance rate reverse move, and dual direction recce vehicles got a full run rate reverse move?

As for a jeep with an MMG or HMG, that’s a tough call. You can now get it as a recce jeep but only with the MMG, but the HMG is enough to make 7+ vehicles think twice. It’s still a softskin vehicle, so as long as I keep it way in the back and pop out towards the end of a turn, it does okay. If I go on the offensive with it, I’ll probably lose it pretty quickly.

[Aidan]

Yeah I dunno, I’ve played a few “mock up” games with my friend, and spent months reading the rules, but never played an official game. So  would not be well versed in rules like that.

Yeah that’s smart. A HMG might be a points sink, but the threatening power alone might work as area denial.

[Author]

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