Motorcycle Sidecar

[Peter]

Am I reading it correctly that a motorcycle with sidecar and machine gun may only stand and shoot? It is not allowed to perform an Advance (driving and shooting)?

It is nothing more than a pintle mounted MG on a vehicle. Driver and gunner are two separate models.

But cavalry can perform an Advance?

I just don’t understand these 3rd edition rules. Nothing follows a logic.

[Nat]

there is no such thing as a motorcycle with sidecar in the rules – the are motorbike units with models that are sidecars… this means that if the primary method of propulsion for the unit  is motorbike then the whole unit uses the same rules – no moddeling for advantage (ie You have a sidecar model so get to move + shoot your LMG… my bike squad with the same loadout at the same cost doesnt have a sidecar model so I cant use the LMG)

Now in v2 you had the issue where you could take M/C + sidecars in both infantry squad slots and armoured car slots.. and depending which slot it was in depending in the MG could fire! – talki about confusing, especially when they were in the same list!!!  (German DAK, dual in the sun IIRC)

Cavalry are limited to 6″ range with rifles (they count as pistols when firing on horseback) and cant use MGs or SMGs while mounted……

Now the KEY point here is BA is pretty much a beer & pretzels GAME based on Hollywood / comic book history NOT actual history… therefore you will (as with all WL game systems) find things where the rules of the game over ride reality /historical accuracy.

• This reply was modified 5 days, 5 hours ago by Nat.
• This reply was modified 5 days, 5 hours ago by Nat.

[Peter]

I realise that the game is not historically accurate. But it should at least follow a certain logic in the game itself. Then a motorbike with an MG costs 10 points more and the issue is settled.

It seems to me as if all these rule changes were decided completely at random without even thinking about whether they make sense.

[Nat]

What you are basically saying (and I agree with you to a point here by the way!) is that certain motorcycle squads should have an additional option to buy sidecars for the LMG which would give the LMG flack and count as a vehicle for firing purposes instead of infantry.  BUT this would have to come with some caveats for the tournament side of the game- like this upgrade must be modeled and the model shouldnt be used if the upgrade isnt taken…. I’d be tempted to trial it at 5 points as a rule TBH.

They updated/ altered the core rulebook… and didnt look at the campaign books /FAQ while doing so….a number of things (Chaplins, rifle grenades, sidecars, roles for officers attendants etc) that appeared in campaign books that would have helped increase the depth of the game without taking away the B&P nature but never appeared like I (and others) thought they would….

The issue is with WL you have 3 main approaches to their game systems.
1 – They’re more like guidelines than actual Rules!- the rules are the starting point /framework for you and your mates to build on
2- We are not Slave to the Book! – you implement these old rules from v2 campaign books (like point 1 but you’re not writing the rules.. you have a set of house rules you all follow.
3- RAW is KING! – this is the meeting strangers / tournament setting … And how Rules on line are answered!

note I tend to play somewhere around point 1 &2 most of the time… but will ALWAYS argue /answer anything rules related online from a point 3 standpoint unless you’re asking for help with tweaking the written rule.

note 2 – despite WL wanting people to play tournaments and develop the sales that way .. so very much point 3… their writing is still very much point 1!!!

 

• This reply was modified 5 days, 2 hours ago by Nat.

[Peter]

I understand what you mean, but then you can’t charge money for it. I would accept that for a free PDF and a first edition, but the rulebook itself is full of errors. Diagrams are wrong, cross-references are wrong and some rule explanations that were still there in the second edition are missing.

The promise was that nothing would be changed that worked. That was a lie. After 8 years of the second edition and endless feedback from players, this cannot and must not be the result.

Why is there the new FUBAR rule, for example? Veterans surrounded by officers run off the table and are destroyed. Even drunk, I wouldn’t think of something like that.

Of course you can introduce your own house rules here and there, but a set of rules should work in such a way that two players can meet and play without having to spend several hours discussing which rule could mean what.

The spotter obserever rule shows that WLG has not thought about this at all.
WLG logic 1: He can lead all mortars, howitzers and an air strike at the same time.
WLG logic 2 Erreta: He can only lead a single gun.

Sensible logic: A platoon with indirect fire gets a spotter that directs the fire of this platoon. Then the officer with snap to action would also make sense.

And the same with the rule for motorbikes. A rider on a horse can ride across a field and shoot, but a motorbike with a sidecar and a mounted machine gun  can only stand and shoot.
With fewer shots, of course, because a machine gun on a vehicle is a completely different weapon.

In terms of quality (basic rulebook / armies of germany rulebook) and game logic, everything that can be done wrong has been done wrong.

If only a little thought had been put into it, the third edition could have been an incredibly good game.
The result is Simple Jack of tabletop games.

• This reply was modified 4 days, 23 hours ago by Peter.

[Nat]

The only thing I’m going to say is….

I’ve said it multiple times that WL dropped the ball MASSIVELY with v3… I’m waiting to see how the armies of X books work against each other before looking again at alternatives!

[Author]

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