Points cost for USS president & United States ?

[Pete]

I go the us fleet box for xmas and nowhere can I find the points value for the ships above

They are so called super frigates but how much do they cost ?

They are slighty heavier armed than the generic 4th rate from the rule book , but I would have thought the poinst cost would have come with the box as they are a bit of a hybrid

Constitution is in the book but she is already costed to include any upgrades

Anyone any ideas or info please

Thanks Pete

[Delta Echo]

USS President and USS United States were sister ships to USS Constitution. Being they were identical in dimension, crew compliment, and equivalent in armament to the USS Constitution, I would use the same base stats and cost.

Its the other 3 “smaller” Heavy USS Frigates; USS Congress, Chesapeake, Constellation, I’m less sure on. They definitely were built sturdier, larger and marginally more heavily armed than standard 36 gun Frigates of the Major Powers of the time, but less so than the 3 larger USS Frigates. Point cost and stats for these 3 are unique and don’t really fit well into the standard rating system. They should get their own card (My opinion).

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Delta Echo.

[invisible officer]

Points are ever a problem.

The US frigates are built from southeastern Live Oak, the best shipbuilding Wood in the world. Joshua Humphreys, the main designer of the six frigates, specifically called for live oak in their frames and other important structural members. And even the outer hull was plated with it.

It costed five times more than white oak but was worth any penny.

Modern gunnery tests with live oak showed that the super frigates had a hull strengh able to resist a 24pdr. And even 32pdr balls have problems to penetrate. No wonder that the RN ships did not well against them.

So how to calculate? In money it should be 5 times the cost of a RN frigate. And in number of ships available to a fleet even more.

But few gamer would accept that. 😉

The three super frigates are all nearly identical. The commanders noted some sailing differences, one was a bit slow. Nothing that should play a role in game point cost.

[Bruce Scott]

Well in game, the two new super frigates are very different in stats to the Constitution, which is why we’d like someone from Warlords to update us on the intended points cost.

Constitution has 60 hull points to the 44 of the other two and a broadside of 331 to the President/United States’ 222, along with other minor differences to bow weaponry and break point, along with the obvious lack of special rules.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Bruce Scott.

[Ken Redington]

Problem with the US fleet is it was a minor league fleet in this era and they are trying to make it competitive. We had like 6 big frigates to use and a SOL 3 we gave to France. Fleet actions of 8 SOL 3 or bigger per side were the standard for other countries and we are not even going to go to the big one with better then 20 SOL 3’s and larger PER SIDE. US players get our ships but will not be able to get any real big battles unless it is a Non Historical point fight. To really bring the US fleet to the table we need sloop and the like type hulls for battles on the Great Lakes. We had naval fleet actions, just in a smaller scale. Also am curious about Russian and Danish fleets or some of the other smaller fleets of the era.

[Harisker]

Based on the characteristics of a normal Frigate and the 2 US Named Frigates the differences are the following:
Hull points 36 to 44
Strike the colors 12 to 15
The guns 211 to 222 (as damage are 4+1+3=8 to 4+2+6=12)
The size Medium to Large
Rate of Knots 5 to 5

Also the differences of a 4th rate with the 2 US Named Frigates the differences are the following:
Hull points 44 to 44
Strike the colors 15 to 15
The guns 221 to 222
The size Medium to Large
Rate of Knots 4 to 5

So if we count them as a 4th rate ships with “More Carronades” and 2 more upgrades available due to “Large” the points are 240.

What do you think?

• This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Harisker.

[Ozysturn]

I have been thinking about the Points cost for the USS President and the USS United States and think that the points coast should be 270pts for each.
Both appear to be 4th Rate Ships (190pts) with 2 upgrades each of “More Cannonades” (50pts) and “Streamlined Hull” (30pts).
The Size difference from a Medium to a Large Size does not appear to fit in with the current upgrades in the Rulebook.
however seeing the size of a ship reflects on a modifier in the “To Hit Chart” it may be assumed that this might be a negative cost factor to the US Navy.
If we assume this then the Constitution having more hull points (Sturdy – 40pts) and instead of “More Cannonades” having Overgunned (80pts) the difference is -20pts. This of course is ignoring the difference in Break Values and also the 4 ship points difference.
This Downgrade (call it something like “reinforced superstructure”) will have the advantage of increasing the size, reduce the Hull value by 4 points and increase the break value by 5 points at a cost of -20pts.
Well any thoughts?

[Bruce Scott]

Or a Warlord rep could just answer the question…..

[Adam Saunders]

Just to close the loop on this incase anyone else comes here to look (as I just did) there is a PDF on the black-seas.com website with a points cost of 260 for each ship.

 

[bwulf37]

A bit late to the conversation… but Warlord did post and article for American and Spanish ships and additional captains:

https://www.black-seas.com/BLS_Spanish_and_US_Captains_and_Ships_WEB_v2.pdf

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