Possible house rules

[invisible officer]

Sorry to say Lincoln, but that is wrong. The carronade was no howitzer. The 68 pdr reached maximum range at just 5 degrees. The carriage and elevation thread made high angle aiming impossible

It was impossible for it to lob a ball over the railing and make it fall down on deck. No plunging fire with carronades.

Unlike mortars it used a standard powder load. Indirect fire was over the education level of the average tar.

Mortar vessel gun crews often came from land artillery corps. Experts with scientific training, freed drom sailor jobs.

Coastal Batteries used mortars and howitzers with big effect if hitting deck from above but slim chance to hit. Changing charge and cutting the fuze…..

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by invisible officer.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by invisible officer.

[Lincolnlog]

Okay, I thought I read some where that carronade had a ballistic climb of about 4 feet per hundred yards. But, have to admit, I can’t remember where I saw that. If I find it I’ll quote it. But I acknowledge, I may certainly be wrong.

Bob

[invisible officer]

Hi Bob,
cannon too have a climb, in both depending on aiming. With the lower muzzle velocity of carronade you aim a bit higher. But far away from plunging fire degrees.

Even mortar balls do not fly over the side and then suddenly drop on deck. Like in Bugs Bunny physics. 😉
It is more a long curve. Most mortars had a fixed degree, range was changed by adding or reducing the powder load. And cutting the time fuze was half science, half art.

There is a way to hit a ships deck with carronade or cannon:

Guns fired from upper deck of a high SOL might hit the deck of a brig in short (but not too short!) distance. If the target is too far away its sides are in the way, if it is too close your own are.

The brig near the SOL…. The problem is that naval cannon and carronades are not good in fire down. The carriage was not designed for that.

Fortresses like Gibraltar had special depression carriages, able to fire downwards.

Not to forget, the naval carronade used the same amo the cannons did. No explossive mortar bombs or shells. So even if you hit the deck it will not explode inside. And the angle will more probably make it a glancing hit.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by invisible officer.

[Lincolnlog]

Invisible Officer,

Thanks, I spent 20 years as an infantryman so I understand weapons an ballistics fairly well. And as I have previously stated, I really possibly/probably am wrong about carronades. Reading gets you in trouble from time to time.

I’m not, nor ever was trying to equate carronade to mortars. Yes the ballistics are totally different. All weapons (except perhaps lasers) have ballistic rise and fall. The old M16A1 fired 3cm low at 25 meters when right on target at 250 meters. Mortars still work like they did then. Can’t remember if the 81mm had the bag or cheese charges. The 4.2″ used the opposite type charge. Of course mortars are way more accurate than in that period. We used to able to fire on reverse slopes of hills using the old M60 MG, at ranges over 650 meters.

Fun discussion, like talking weapons, even old ones.

Bob

[invisible officer]

Yes, I like it too. I was often invited by German, US and British army to “play” with the nice toys. The biggest they let me use with life amo was the 120 mm of a Leo II.
Good contacts, even being just a professional military historian.

But I really go for the old ones. Touching the well made sword of Napoleon’s chief naval architect Sané is much different to touching an industry product like the MG 3.

In game I would not change the carronade rules. I test black sails with my 1/300 vessels, in the moment I still prefer the nerd set of rules I’m used to. But black sails is fun.

[Lincolnlog]

What set are you using? Signal Close Action by any chance? My 1/1000 scale ship are from Sails of Glory. Not thrilled about many aspects of that game so quit playing some time ago.

Played quite a bit of Wooden Ships, Iron Men when I was much younger. Osprey put out a set of rules called Fighting Sail I believe, didn’t care for them either.

Black Seas plays really well, after scaling adjustment for smaller models. I like the rules.

I wouldn’t change them either. My closest inclination to house ruling was the turn templates. But, won’t do that either, since can’t come up with a better method.

[invisible officer]

No, it’s a set specially designed for coastal actions but working for SOL too. With long lists for the different guns. Even 3 types of Russian Edinorogs.
It allows to do stats for all historical ships.

I still have Wooden ships and Iron men, a well designed classic. And much better to transport than a game with models.

Seeing the Black Seas Videos on You Tube I’m astonished how many start Age of sail gaming without any previous interest in navy gaming.

I hope the hype will last.

[Lincolnlog]

Ares Games never put out a Brig model. So had never researched Brigs until now. I am surprised to find that most Brigs for US and UK were privateers.

Yesterday, I converted 6 Sloops to Brigs.

That’s the great thing about this hobby, it makes you dig and investigate.

Bob

[Steve Burt]

Just to report we had a game last night (scenario 2, but using the advanced rules). Actually we had two games, both fun; first one the merchant escaped, second one she was boarded by two brigs but survived due to good rolling, and due to the fact that one had been badly damaged by the merchant colliding with it.
Anyway, we tried the revised critical hits (rolling for crits per damage caused), and I felt a 10% chance per damage was too low; we got too few criticals. So I’d either use a d6 and say 6s are crits, or uses d10s and says 9s and 10s are crits.

Question about the scenario. Do the privateers only get their 2 bonus dice when they initiate boarding, or all the time? The privateers boarded the merchant, won the boarding action thanks to getting a ‘1’ on one of their hits, but took so much damage themselves in the process (both sides got 3 hits, so the brig lost 6 damage, while the merhcant lost 8 due to the critical) that they struck, which is a bit odd….
The merchant then boarded and reclaimed the loot from the struck privateer.
We gave them the bonus all the time (and the +2 to hit), but the merchant kept rolling 4 or less so was getting hits even with its green crew, and the brigs just can’t afford the damage.

[Andy watkins]

Thanks for letting us know how you did with revised critical hit chance

I am still painting my fleets. I have ordered a total of 4 1st rates, 9 3rd rates, 6 frigates and 6 brigs. To make 2 fleets. I have finished painting 14 and hoping to play soon

[Steve Burt]

I still haven’t painted my starter ships, I’m using my existing scratch built 1:600 ships for the frigates (I also have 2 and 3 deckers), and the WizKids pirates ships for Brigs and the Merchant

[Steve Burt]

Another thing we are going to house rule is skill tests for tacking. It is way too hard to tack; a veteran crew should almost always succeed. So I think +2 to skill tests when tacking would be appropriate.

[j_m_crenshaw]

I agree that tacking is too hard. I was thinking maybe a sloped + to skills based on size. Something like +1 for medium and +2 for smaller than that. Brigs should be able to tack pretty easily. But I agree that it would be harder for a first rate to in a combat situation.

[invisible officer]

The rule for tacking is good as it is. Under reduced or “battle sails” a sailing vessel often lacks the power to go through the wind.

From decades of own sailing I can assure you that even with a small yacht not any tacking attempt is successfull.

If you don’t have enough “Swinging power” the vessel just stops with the bow into the wind.

It stops and you have a hard job to get it into moving again.

Not nice if something big Closes.

[Steve Burt]

Of course tacking can fail. I don’t have a problem with tacks failing – but tacks failing 2 times out of 3 with an experienced crew? I don’t think so!
A +2 would mean veterans succeed 5 times out of 6, experienced 4 out of 6 and green crews 3 out of 6. That sounds much more like it to me (and also much more like what other age of sail games give as the odds of failing for different crew grades)

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