Rules Questions

[Koin-Koin]

Just my 2 cents here.
As I read the rimes, everything is supposed to be as simple as possible.
For instance, planes are not necesseraly at the same altitude so they can touch base or even move through other planes (exceptionnel when the ram ability if used).
I definitly agree with everyone about a FAQ. The diagrams are completely rights but really confusing sometime and all the little specific cases deserve some clarification.

I’m always wondering how to deal with thé clouds. I choose to play or this way: as soon as the base is on touch with the cloud marker, the aircraft is considered insode it. But it could be play with the ‘more than half the base’ option or the ‘the centre of the base’ one.

Based on the way I play the clouds, I found this case interesting:
I’m already on a big cloud marker with a spitfire (speed 7) so I’m neutral. I burn advantage, so I go disadvantaged to make a manoeuvre. I move 2 then turn 180 and move 2. Technically, I was always inside the marker so I never left the cloud which means that I will remain disadvantaged.

Honnestly, each time we met such case, we settled thing pretty quickly with an obvious solution, so I really think that the rules are well done. Anyway, they deserve a FAQ to get games even more streamlined.

[Mark Barker]

Technically, I was always inside the marker so I never left the cloud which means that I will remain disadvantaged.

That sounds OK. If you start in a cloud and come out, or pass through a cloud (and we take the base touching the cloud marker as entering) and then come out you go Neutral.

If you use Burn advantage to Manoeuvre to stay completely in a dark, bumpy and disorienting cloud and not come out, you stay Disadvantaged. You are flying on instruments and have no awareness of what is going on around you.

On the turn you do decide to come out, you will exit the cloud marker as Neutral but without the possiblity of a free “Burn” because you have started as Disadvantaged.

All that works for me.

Mark Barker

[Tokhuah]

Why are you creating alternate cloud rules? Is there something wrong with the existing rules?

[Koin-Koin]

That’s no alternate rule, that’s how we understand the existing one.
From what I understand, going neutral is when entering and exiting the clouds not when staying.
If we missed something, I’ll be happy to be corrected. After all, that’s the reason this topic exist 😁

[Koin-Koin]

Sorry, double post (damned laggy connection)

[Terry]

Hi guys,

In the case of named aces do you add all of the Ace Skill Cards to your deck?

For example: Sailor Malan has two cards listed (Set them up and Killer Instict). Do I add both of them or do I have to choose just one as for a normal ace.

Thanks!
Terry

[Terry]

Hi guys,

I have a few questions about clouds.

1) Can a plane on one one side (but not in cloud) fire at a target on the other side of the cloud (but out of the cloud). i.e fire through the cloud?

2) A plane that finishes in a cloud takes no pilot action. But in the next turn can the plane use the first shooting action to fire from inside the cloud?

Have fun!
Terry

[Koin-Koin]

@Terry

Standard aces can choose one card from the standard ace deck when named aces have the specified ones. So if a named ace have several capacities on its card, then you pick one card for each one listed. (p.8 book 3)

You cannot fire through clouds.(p.3 book 2)

When a plane is in the cloud, it cannot fire not be fired at. It can’t perform pilot action not be affected by other pilots’ action.(p.3 book 2)

[Terry]

@Koin-Koin.

Thanks for the speedy replies! The references you provided will help me convince my opponent 🙂

The only down-side I’ve found to this game so far has been a lack of FAQ and the decision to divide the rule book up. Sometime it makes things hard to find. But nothing a good index can’t cure.

[Koin-Koin]

Yep, a good FAQ will be welcome by a lot of people I think 😉

For instance, I made my own quick reference sheet with all the tables used for army/scenario building as they are spread all around the 3 books.

So far it’s in French but I may make an English version and share it.

[Tokhuah]

Going back to clouds. Since there is nothing specific about how much base must be touching the cloud marker for the airplane to be considered inside the cloud we have been playing that it is based on the center peg being inside, otherwise you are skirting the cloud but not inside it.

The rules indicate moving through a cloud maintains an airplane’s neutral state and the that you can in effect burn advantage for free when inside a cloud so I think none of the disadvantaged plane issues above should be happening. BRS seems to encourage keeping it simple.

This has been asked else-wear, but looking for an official clarification here:

Do all the following need to be true for tailing to occur?

– Attacker’s stem is in the targets rear arc.
– Target is within shooting range.
– Attackers front arrow is pointing at any part of the target’s base.
– Attacker is not disadvantaged.
– No advantaged or neutral wingman is present to “protect” the target by having the eventually tailing attacker in its front arc and shooting range.

[Koin-Koin]

@Tokhuah I completely agree with the keep it simple approach.
The cloud case I mention has honestly little chance to occur.
The way applied the rule was based on the simplified version of the cloud rule: “you enter the cloud, you go neutral. You exit the cloud, you go neutral”
As going through is technically entering and exiting in one move it fits naturally in it, but staying in the cloud is none of those so I considered it as not fitting the rule.
To be honest, the case was during a demo game so I chose the less advantageous option for me.

Back to the tailing rule, I think you put a pretty exhaustive list here. I don’t think anything is missing. So, yes, if any of those conditions is wrong, no tailing occurs.*

*As far as I understand the rulebook 😉

[Mark Barker]

“The rules indicate moving through a cloud maintains an airplane’s neutral state and the that you can in effect burn advantage for free when inside a cloud …”

Not quite they don’t – they say that ‘an aircraft starting inside a cloud can Burn Advantage for free and still leave the cloud in a neutral advantage state’.

Leave the cloud, not muck around inside it !

I’m all for keeping it simple too, and for also having an interesting game. Players staying in clouds is dull, the deliberate side intention to this interpretation is that if you decide to drop out of the game and circle in a cloud you lose situational awareness of the rest of the battle and come out Disadvantaged.

Your tailing summary is accurate and the Koin-Koin’s statement ‘as far as I understand the rulebook’ is spot on.

If you look at the videos on the Warlord and Beasts of War websites you see a different version being used, apparently with official sanction.

In this all the other tests apply but the shooter’s front arrow must point at the stem of the target aircraft. This is a tougher test, and more accurate as in the rulebook version you can be tailing while not actually pointing at the enemy aircraft.

The tailing attack is devastating (and rightly so) but too easy to get to with the rulebook version. We have used the stem version in our club games, and needing to do that final turn to really get ‘on the tail’ of the target has a good feel to play.

Really agree on the need for an FAQ sheet (as I suspect we are all doing our own) and some official answers to the questions being raised here.

Although I am not on Facebook you can look at the stuff on the Blood Red Skies Facebook page without being a member. A lot of the ‘official’ discussion goes on there.

Best wishes,

Mark Barker
West Sussex

[Tokhuah]

Time to put the shooting arc vs rules arrow argument to bed:

Andy Chambers (Lead Designer of BRS): Firing is front arc, you only use the little arrow for drawing a line to determine tailing.

There you have it. The arc, not the arrow, is used for firing. This is the RAW from the book. Lesson learned: words are rules, while graphic images merely show you a limited example of a portion of the rule.

[Tokhuah]

Rules Q&A clarification to the question, “Am I tailing when…”

The attacker’s stem is in the targets rear arc. – yes, as long as the Attackers front facing is facing directly into targets rear arc

– Target is within shooting range. – yes

– Attackers front arrow is pointing at any part of the target’s base. – no – attackers front arrow must be pointing directly at targets stem through the targets rear arc

– Attacker is not disadvantaged. – yes

– No advantaged or neutral wingman is present to “protect” the target by having the eventually tailing attacker in its front arc and shooting range. – yes

Note: The requirement of the arrow pointing directly at the stem is only to determine tailing, the entire front arc of the firing plane is used for normal targeting.

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