Rules Questions

[Graham Thomson]

Anybody got any comments on my query as to why British Commandos are overcharged for SMGs?

[Felix Jaegar]

Its an auto hit. Just roll for damage at Pen 8 🙂

[Rick]

So back to the morale question. Which takes place first? Does the officer bonus apply before the pen markers or pen marked first? Example, a regular unit is by the 1st Lt. and has 3 pen markers. So is the math 9-3+2 for an 8 or is it 9+2 (max at 10) – 3 for a 7?

We have been playing it that the officer bonus is for morale checks only. Just like it says for stubborn, that an order check is not a morale check.

[Richard Lawrence]

Order checks are not Morale checks. My understanding is modifiers apply to both. This is supported in the narrative on various pages in the rules. We apply the modifiers as per your first example e.g. 8 for the regulars. Rationale, apply all modifiers, if the result is over 10 it is reduced to 10.

[Rick]

So the bonus is applied after the pen markers reduce the value? I just wish it was made clear in the rule book. Has anything official came out, like an update or anything? I’ve only been playing for about a month.

[Rick]

Wait, so the officer bonus does not apply to an order check? I missed that in my first reply.

[Richard Lawrence]

Officer bonus does apply to both Order checks and Morale checks. We have been playing three plus years and still find something we have been doing wrong or not doing at all. It is the way the rules are laid out and there is no index.

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi, I have just copied this paragraph fro the Bolt Action articles list on officers in the 2nd edition rule book.
“These order dice act just as if they were drawn out of the bag and are resolved in any order but each order dice must be finished before another dice can be activated. Each of these “extra” dice act like normal, i.e. they must pass an orders check so if there are pin markers on the unit roll the dice, apply the pins and most likely the officers morale bonus and proceed from there, you know how it works. I know your mind is blown.” Hope this helps.

[Rick]

Thank you for the replies. I understand the extra order mechanics. My question was the timing of modifiers. Does the bonus go first, which would then have no effect on veteran troops. Basically raising the morale to 10 before any pen markers are applied. Or do you take the base morale of the unit, subtract any pen markers, and then add the bonus back in.

Doing it with the bonus first makes it harder to pass order checks with pen markers and basically makes everyone veteran level.

Doing it the second way makes it so units will be testing on 9 or 10 every time. Every time they are close to the officer that is.

Sorry to keep beating up on this, I just don’t understand the timing.

[Stuart Harrison]

Pluses and minuses are simultaneous – the final step is applying the maximum, not at some point along the way. The maximum is “regardless of how many pin markers apply, or how many bonuses or penalties apply”, not “after all bonuses” or “after all penalties”.

[Rick]

Okay, so the example would be that you start with whichever is greater, pen markers or bonus. Subtract the small of the two. Whatever the balance is, positive or negative is then added, or subtracted from the base morale of the unit.

I never thought of just adding the difference. Like you said it is simultaneously figured.

Thank you, it makes sense now.

[Graham Thomson]

Order Tests and Morale Checks are taken against the Morale Value of a unit. An Officer’s Morale Bonus is to the Morale Value of a unit. Regardless of modifiers Morale Value cannot be higher than 10 or lower than 2. It does not say anywhere that modifiers should be applied in any order so common sense suggests they are simultaneous.

Back to my question which has been swamped by this, why do British Commandos have to pay +3 for SMGs when other Tough Fighters only have to pay +2 and where do I report this errata?

[Master Chief]

Hmm in my 1st Ed US Army book the NCO and 1 or 2 men pay 3pts each for an SMG. Where do you see the 2 pts for an SMG?

[Stuart Harrison]

@ Graham Thomson – general principal does seem to be that units that get tough fighter as a purchasable option pay the full price for SMGs and those with tough fighter built in only pay 2 points for SMGs (ie: Soviet Naval Squad). You may not benefit from a close look at the costing of Commandos and Gurkhas – both get one of their special rules for free. A 13 point veteran, plus one point for tough fighter already makes their 14 points…

[Graham Thomson]

@ Stuart Harrison – I don’t understand your answer but British Commandos, Gurkhas and Australian Commandos all have Tough Fighter built in. Gurkhas and Australian Commandos pay +2 points for SMGs whilst British Commandos who are otherwise identcal to Australian Commandos pay +3pts for SMGs.

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