Panzer div platoon Mid war 1.5k

[Mike]

I don’t see much activity but felt I would post and see. Looking for a fluffy veteran Panzer division recon force. I went with midwar as it works fine for most theaters and most importantly my favorite theater the Italian theater(even though they really didn’t play much of a notable role in the major battles). Tried to squeeze as many bodies in as I could. A bit worried about enemy armor but I think I have enough in almost every squad and the schrek squad in the jeep should be able to scoot around and fill in.
2nd LT Vet + a dude
Medic vet
SS Squad 9 guys, NCO with subgun, 6 guys with sub guns, 2 panzerfausts

SS Squad 10 guys, 2 Light Machine Guns

Assault Engineers 10 guys, NCO + 5 guys w/Sub-guns, 1 flame thrower team, 1 grenade launcher team, 2 panzerfausts

SS Squad 5 guys, NCO +4 guys with Subguns, 2 Panzerfausts

Medium mortar Team- regular
Panzershreck Team- Regular
Sniper Team- Veteran

SdKfz 234/1 Heavy Armored Car Regular
SdKfz 251/10 half track (the one with the AT gun) Vet
SdKfz 251/1 Half track (basic one with MG) Reg
SdKfz 251/1 Half Track (basic one with MG) Reg
Schwimmwagen (basic car) Reg

• This topic was modified 5 years ago by Mike.

[Paul Nettle]

A good list, but Panzer divisons had recon in SdKfz 250 – the smaller ones. Also, I don’t remember any SS divisions in Italy apart from the 29th (Italian) Division in Feb 1945. But this is a fine list for an armoured Panzer Grenadier regiment. The only thing is that panzer grenadier squads had two LMG which only one of your sqauds has. Of course, in fluff they could have lost their MG and replaced then with SMG! I am still not convinced that the cost of upgrading vehicles to Veteran is worth the points. And I would have thrown in a tank, plus some fire support such as a medium/large anti-tank gun or the 75mm infantry gun the Aufklärungsabteilung were armed with. Have fun with the list!

[Mike]

There was one SS Panzer Recon regiment in Italy. They committed some reprisal war crimes against the local populace. Yeah a 75mm gun is nice but kind of goes against the rapid deployment idea. I was actually thinking of adding in the SdKfz with the mortar in the back and ditching the one on the ground. I only made the transport with the AT gun a vet vehicle, everything else was just a regular just to help it a bit. I also added the fausts in all the mobile squads while the LMG squad sits back and provides fire support. At this point in the war, with Germany refusing to send further reinforcements to Italy, under strength and under equipped squads were the norm, not the exception, and these guys had been taking part in the Anzio battle.

In the TO&E I read which is linked on my computer at work and not here, all of these vehicles were pretty standard to an SS recon unit. I tried to go as fluffy as I could under the constraints of the reinforced platoon system. I am actually fielding this list over the weekend using my FJ army since they have the exact same equipment options but I am working on making new guys SS since I am tired of painting Splinter 😛

[Paul Nettle]

Typically a Aufklärungsabteilung in late war (ie 1944 onwards) would have two companies of armoured cars, two companies of infantry in 250s, and one support company with Pak and infantry 75mm guns, all towed by 251s. So the 75mm gun with a 251 would be very historical.

So recon should have 250s, not 251s. No matter. Your army, your choice.

If you think painting splinter is hard, try oak-leaf! I think you will be out of the frying pan into the fire! Good luck and happy gaming.

[invisible officer]

I guess you base your force at SS-Panzeraufklärungs-Abteilung 16 that served in mid 44 in Italy. Part of SS Panzergrenadier Division 16.

I must confess I don’t understand why peoples are so obsessed with SS. Many Heer units had been far more “elite” and most not so prone to war crimes. 16. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division “Reichsführer SS” had been among the worst.

That division lacked much equipment. In April 44 it had no SPW, Krad and Kettenschlepper “Maultier”, instead of 73 Sturmgeschütze in OOB it had 12.
Before going to Italy 4500 Germans of the division had been replaced with 2500 Hungarians. “Volksdeutsche” that had been little more than criminals.

Paul is correct, even if a Recce unit got some SPW it would have normally been 250, not 251. It was rare that Panzergrenadiere accepted to have their Gruppenwagen to be given to other units.

And worse: The SPW armored SS Panzeraufklärungs Abteilungen are for Panzer Divisions. Those in Panzergrenadier Divisions Type 44 had 1 armored company with Panzerspähwagen and 3 with Volkswagen cars.

The no LMG but Sub machine gune squads are the usual fantasy you see on game tables. The German Gruppe was designed around the LMG. The 2 LMG made the Panzergrenadier so strong in defense. To replace MG and rifle with short range Maschinenpistolen would have been foolish. If Sturmgewehre had been available they normally went first to NCO. The all Stug 44 unit are a rare white elephant.

The assault Pionier is an invention by gamers. The Divisions had ordinary Pioniere, armed with LMG and K 98. SMG only for NCO and perhaps officer (instead of pistol)

The Pionier Kompanie of Panzergren Div. 44 had 18 LMG, 2 heavy MG, 2 medium Mortars. And lorries, no SPW. (Again often the OOB of tank units is given in books)

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by invisible officer.
• This reply was modified 5 years ago by invisible officer.

[Mike]

Having a unit and wanting to paint cool uniforms does not make one obsessed with a particular army type.

I played today using FJs in place of the SS both in points and models(also making me wonder why I am bothering since I already have the army with FJs)

The engineers managed to get out of their transport, kill a big nasty US tank(bigger than a Sherman I think) with their panzerfausts and then fail to hit at point blank with a flame thrower a nearby ranger squad who later just shot them to pieces. Managed to pull a either a tie or slight win on taking a bridge when the panzershrek team ran to a ford in the river for a victory point after not having fired a shot all game. Despite all the MGs my FJs and their transports could not dig the rangers out of cover or their downed condition, conversely when they were pinned and down they werent doing anything either except contesting the main bridge.

I did not realize my half tracks could be killed by having other troops near them. I thought they were considered armored carriers and not in the same category as trucks. Makes no sense as they have crews and machine guns more vicious than most squads coming at them. One of many rules that needs to change. Ill start a new thread on that, there are some goofy rules which make zero sense both in game and in real life.

Going to switch and do a Panzer Div grenadier force. I dislike open topped vehicles so I am changing some odds and ends based on silliness in the rules I observed that I didnt know or think about.
2nd lt + guy
Heer grenadier vet x9 ,2 LMG, 1 faust
Heer grenadier vet x9, 6 SMGs, 2 fausts
Heer Grenadier vet x8, 2 LMGs
Heer grenadier vet x8, 2 LMGs 2 fausts, Assault rifle on sgt
Assault Engineers x10, 6 SMGs(including sgt), flamethrower, grenade launcher, 2 fausts, AT grenades
Vet Sniper
Medic + guy (to extend the buff)
Medium Artillery regular + spotter
Medium Mortar regular + spotter
Panzer IV with side skirts. It was this or a Stug. 5 point difference, 1 extra non coax machine gun, tiger fear(however you feel about it)
250/1 to drive the engineers where needed.

I would love to use a Jagdpanzer instead of the Pz4 but for less weapons, no turret, same main gun, no tiger fear, same chassis, but costs another 20-30 points more for no reason. Oh well, I have a PZ4 mostly painted I have never used. Pz4s were fairly common so it works. I took out the Puma I had and added another grenadier squad, threw in an assault rifle on the sgt just because. I didn’t spam them at least. Thinking about tossing a pair on the LT and his assistant so they can contribute a little more.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Mike.

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