Vehicle Questions

[L.T. Russell]

I’ve been playing Bolt Action for about five years now.  Bolt Action and Konflikt 47 are the games that got me into miniatures gaming.  I’ve picked up a number of the army and campaign books, as well as the basic rulebooks.  Eventually I’ve noticed several discrepancies, mostly in German vehicle stats, since I mostly play Germans.  I refer to book stats, since I don’t have a smart phone and don’t access Easy Army.  I don’t have my Armies of Great Britain handy, I’ve lent it to a new gamer….

*The Sdkfz 222 has the special ability “Flak”.  Yet the Sdkfz 234/1, Sdkfz 250/9, Sdkfz 251/23, the recon version of the Pzkw 38t, etc ALL use the same 20mm autocannon turret, and none of them show the “Flak” ability….

*What is the actual price for an Sdkfz 251 Hamomag?  Armies of Germany shows 89 points.  Both the Bolt Action and Konflikt 47 rulebooks show 84 points.  In my subjective opinion, I prefer 84 points….

*What is the actual price of an Sdkfz 250?  There’s no listing in the Bolt Action rulebook.  Armies of Germany shows 75 points.  Konflikt 47 shows 80 points.  I of course prefer the cheaper.  I was comparing/contrasting the Sdkfz 250 with the Bren Carrier.  Both are “open-topped” armored vehicles, that can carry 5 men.  The 250 is armed with an MMG, the Bren with an automatic rifle that the Brits claim is an LMG.  The 250 has “Recce” in Konflikt, but no special abilities in Bolt Action.  The Bren has both “Recce” and “Turn on the Spot”.  The 250 is 75-80 points, the Bren is 70.  In the Bolt Action group I game with, we refer to this under the “Cheaty” British rules….

*I’ve been reading up on the Pzkw III.  Apparently the Marks A-E/F had TWO coaxial MG34s.  There’s no mention of this in Armies of Germany, although there’s two different listings for models C,D and E,F.  Having two coaxial MMGs, along with the bow-mount MMG could make this a real infantry killer….as long as you don’t role dice as poorly as I do….

*Is there a reason that only the Americans get the option of a “Heavy” truck, that can carry 24 men?  I guess no one’s heard of the Magirus 5, 7, or 8 ton trucks that the Germans used….

I don’t know if stuff like this is addressed in the “Errata”, or in Bolt Action Version 3, or in the new Armies of Germany coming out in 2025.  Anyway, some thoughts of mine….

 

 

 

 

[Nat]

Well…V3 rulebook is being released in September and a new armies of Germany is being released early next year.  This will include most units from campaign books as well

 

So hopefully these lack of consistencies are addressed

[SteveT]

Yeah , what Nat said. Any of these points issues may become moot soon-ish.

For now,   get the Army Builder app as the seem to update it with the latest points costs and options.

On the question of “why vehicle X” is not included: as WW2 had hundreds of different ones, I suppose they had to draw the line somewhere!

Also I think the designers take the view that just because vehicle A has weapon X it doesn’t mean it was used in the same role. as another vehicle with the same weapon.

 

 

[L.T. Russell]

Howdy Steve T!

These points become “moot” IF someone notices and does something about it….

The Army Builder app does me no good.  I’m a low-tech old guy with a dumb flip-phone.  I’ve bought the Army books and the Campaign books.  I build my units with pencil and paper….

A)  I’m not asking about anything one-off/obscure/experimental.  I’m asking why there’s no listing for the standard German heavy truck.

B)  When I mention the early models of the Panzer III, there are ALREADY two listings in Armies of Germany and they’re both wrong.  Again, this is not an obscure vehicle, the Panzer III is one of the German army’s standard medium tanks, at least for the 1st half on the war.  I don’t remember if this is addressed in the errata.  I don’t know if it’s addressed in the Army Builder or one of the campaign books.  I’m guessing not though.  I’m hoping if I point it out, someone will notice….

“Also I think the designers take the view that just because vehicle A has weapon X it doesn’t mean it was used in the same role. as another vehicle with the same weapon.”  Huh?  Can you illustrate this point a little more clearly?

Personally, I think the designers always shade things in favor of the British, usually at the expense of the Germans.  Some of the world-class Bolt Action players in our group have noticed that playing a British/Indian army gets you an extra 200+ free points in your army build.  A 200 point advantage can be a little hard to overcome.  Yet a German national advantage, like “Tiger Fear”, ends up so neutered that it’s pretty much worthless….

 

[SteveT]

Hey LT Russell,

I know what you mean about this new-fangled thing they call electricity. More trouble than it’s worth sometimes!

(A) The missing monster truck. Part of the explanation, I  think, is that we have to be real here and consider Warlord as first and foremost a model figure business, so they naturally (and quite rightly) tend to promote stuff they supply.   I know this isn’t always the case.  But in game terms what do you think the Magirus should add that a standard truck doesn’t?  In their estimation, they might have judged the other trucks in the book do much the same job whilst hoping to sell you the German trucks they do sell.

(B)  It is possible they judged that tank’s coax-MGs as being too cramped and ineffective, or had less ammo (I don’t know), or some other factor, so counted its effect as reduced? (i.e. roll as per one MMG) . They do occasionally downgrade weapons in certain cases. But yes it seems odd to only actually list a singular weapon.

It is also possible their knowledge is inferior to yours. A lot of wargamers do know a lot of stuff about highly specialised areas, and it is unlikely the writer of that book was a truck expert and AA expert and , etc.

On the matter of role, I just mean that just because a weapon exists and could be used a certain way,  the doctrine might have dictated how it was actually used. Or sometimes in reverse — I am thinking of German AA guns, not designed or intended for mowing down men but adapted for that new grim role. Hope you see what I am on about.

As a German player (player of German forces) I agree that the Axis in general don’t quite match up to the Allies somehow. But it is the American armies I fear playing against, they are  just so dangerous. It is never an easy fight. A lot of British stuff is clunky.  There again, we only  play Theatre selectors/scenarios, with historical matched opposing nations. In tournament style generic platoons, then, who knows, as that reduces the game to something else entirely for me, and introduces too many random elements which people will inevitably find the best of.

S

[Stuart Harrison]

Re coaxial MGs on early Panzer IIIs, from the Errata for AoG:

“Page 47, Panzer III (C, D, E, F). Add a second co-axial MMG
and increase cost by +5pts. “

[Aidan]

I was browsing army lists the other day, and IIRC one of the Panzer III variants can use 2 coaxial MMGs.

And I’ve seen a few people talk about how the Panzer III is like a German Stuart now, with 18 shots…

[L.T. Russell]

Howdy Gents, THANKS for your replies!

Stuart, Aidan, thanks for the info!  Between the multiple campaign books, Armies of books, Version 1, 2 and now 3, errata, etc, etc, I worry that Bolt Action is becoming like Warhammer….ya gotta buy half a dozen $50 rulebooks just to play a basic game….

Steven T, I hear ya!  The number one way to keep yer vehicle from getting stolen, have a stick shift.  Back when dinosaurs ruled the earth and I was young, an automatic transmission would cost you an extra thousand dollars….

(A) I’m an American, I want options.  Every Army has a listing for the standard medium truck, that holds 12 men, and maybe has an option for an MG.  Does any other country have a listing for a STANDARD heavy truck (not a “monster” truck), that would/could carry 24 men, tow a larger gun, etc. besides the Americans?  I KNOW for a fact the British and Germans have/had them.  It would definitely make a difference in Konflikt 47, where ya might wanna transport “Large” infantry or a buncha Totenkorps.  I have a standard Opel Blitz medium truck, a Maultier tracked medium truck, Horch heavy cars, Kubel light cars, etc, heck I’ve even got an Opel Blitz medium truck with an armored cab and a 37mm AA gun in the bed.  I’ll buy a heavy truck if they’ll sell me one….

(B) I’m pretty sure that in the later model Panzer IIIs the 2nd coax was removed to provide room for the larger 50mm main guns and thicker gun mantlet armor, as the Panzer assumed more of the role of medium tank vs infantry support….

I prefer to think it’s just an oversight in the minutiae of detail, but it does bother me a little that someone doing this for money seems to know less than I do.  I freely admit that I’ve been studying WWII German militaria for something like 50+ years now and am arguing about somewhat picky details.  It is always easier to come along afterwards and sharpshoot.  Then again, errors just seem to stick out to me.  I specifically will cite the Images of War books by Ian Baxter, which usually contain at least a half dozen mislabeled photographs.  What can I say.  I’ve studied WWII for 50+years, I’ve been in the military for 21+years, I’ve carried guns for money for 47+years….

Doctrine works great in training during peacetime.  In a real shootin’ war, the experienced survivors use whatever works best.  The German 88 is probably the prime example; AA gun, AT gun, medium artillery piece.  I’m presently in love with automatic AA guns, mostly for the multiple shots.  My dice roles usually suck, so I want as many chances as possible….

Yeah, there’s a BIG difference between historical gamers and tournament competitors.  Much as I hate to say it, there seems to be an underlying bias by the British company, for the British units.  The group I game with refer to it as the “Cheaty British”….except for the one guy who plays Brits….

 

• This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by L.T. Russell.

[Nat]

So…. No V3 is a reset to stop the 101 books per army syndrome.

You’ll get the rulebook which will include a get you by list for the major nations (minor ones getting a free PDF on release).  Then you’ll get an ‘armies of…..’ book released with Germany being first in line q1 next year.

 

These armies of… Books will bring all the units (barr neich ones) from the campaign books together.  After the release of V3 any current/ existing camping book will only be useful for scenarios and history (and the occasional neich unit) as all equipment & majority units will be overruled by the new armies of…. books

Hope that makes sense

[L.T. Russell]

Thanks for the word Nat!  I’m here waiting for V3.  “barr neich”?

[Aidan]

I think he meant “barring niche”, as in “books will bring all units (barring niche ones) from the campaign books together”

[Author]

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