What do YOU want to see in Bolt Action v3?

[Stuart Harrison]

@ Alan,

“… a move at advance or run rate, which may be forward or reverse,…’ Doesn’t change how fast a vehicle can go when moving forward or reverse. It simply has both options open to it.

[Sgt.saunders]

<p dir=”ltr”>I recently played against a very experienced player and he eliminated my mortar team with one shot with a sniper.  Now it’s clear to me that nobody plays heavy mg, which I find completely unrealistic because when the shooter has been eliminated, the man next to him has taken over the task.  The set of rules is, in my opinion, still the best on the market, it just needs to be maintained better by Warlord Games.  😏</p>

[L.T. Russell]

Howdy!  New to the forums….

IDK if these topics have been addressed already, if so, I apologize.

Shotguns; Last I’ve seen in Bolt Action, shotguns have a range of 18 inches.  IMHO, in a system where pistols shoot 6 inches, submachineguns 12 inches, assault rifles 18 inches and rifles 24 inches, this is ludicrous.  Military shotguns tend to be short-barrelled riot guns using buckshot, not specialized deer guns with rifled slug barrels, rifle sights, using slugs.  I think 9 inches is practical/reasonable.  Perhaps allow hitting multiple targets and/or assigning an extra pin.  In the real world, buckshot from a riot gun is rarely effective much beyond 35 yards….

Fallschirmjaeger and FG42s; IMHO, in both Konflikt 47 and Bolt Action, considering an FG42 an assault rifle is short-changing/ripping off the fallschirmjaeger.  By definition, an assault rifle uses a reduced length rifle cartridge.  The FG42 fired a full length 7.92mm round, as well as having an integral bipod.  I think it should be classified as an automatic rifle….

Bren guns; How is a Bren an LMG?  It’s not belt-fed.  IMHO a Bren is an automatic rifle, basically a British BAR.  It doesn’t belong in the same category as an MG34 or 42 or even a Browning 1919.  With these guns you can hook multiple belts of ammunition together and put out a sustained rate of machinegun fire.  With a Bren you’re changing mags every what, 30 rounds….

Rocket launchers; IMHO ridiculously overpowered.  I don’t believe there’s any way your average Katyusha could fire more than once in a 6 turn game. How long would it take the 2 man crew to actually reload one of those things, 45 minutes?  An hour?  And it can somehow fire within 12 inches of itself?  That’s the same as the effective range of a submachinegun, maybe 100 yards, in real life….

Just a few things that bother me, thanks for your consideration….

[Stuart Harrison]

1. Agree on shotguns.

2. Agree on FG42.

3. Totally disagree on the Bren gun. If you’ve ever been part of a team with one, you’d see the difference between it and a BAR immediately. The top fed system allows the second man to have the replacement magazine in place before the gunner has even finished the movement of tossing the empty mag under the gun, so a mag change takes little more than the normal pause between bursts, nothing like the mucking around with changing mags on a BAR. The quick change barrel system allows you to change barrels every 5 magazines, allowing you to maintain a relatively high rate of fire (you can leave it longer if using a slower rate of fire) for extended periods, each of the two barrels is heavier than a BAR barrel so it can maintain a higher rate of fire than a BAR even without considering that barrel change ability. The Bren CAN step down to the role of an automatic rifle, being used for walking fire etc, but it can just as easily step up to a tripod role with 100 round drums – try that with a BAR.

4. Multiple rocket launchers – In my opinion, they’re one of the things that don’t belong on table in this scale of game unless as an objective – their minimum engagement distance is simply too long. Each one would also need to be accompanied by a truck or two purely to supply up to 6 turns worth of reloads.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Stuart Harrison.

[L.T. Russell]

Howdy Stuart!  Thanks for your thoughtful reply.  I concede mosta your points about Bren vs. BAR.  It was Pete Kokalis’ writings that first made me aware of the quick-change barrel on the Bren and the value of the top feed receiver.  As a former M60 machinegunner, I will continue to quibble about the sustained firepower of multiple linked belts vs. continual mag changes though….especially when firing suppression or final protective fires.

A 100rd drum for a Bren?  I’ve never heard of one a those!  Gonna have to do some research….

 

[Stuart Harrison]

Video on the Bren (and a few other MGs in use by the Brits early war) – the last 20 seconds or so show it in use on the tripod.

… and with the 100 round drum.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bren+with+100+round+magazine&sca_esv=572781667&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU758AU758&tbm=vid&sxsrf=AM9HkKlruohEwhLQ93JYMBx3aiknlKcr-w:1697094593908&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj3962D-u-BAxUpMHAKHbpjDW0Q_AUoA3oECAMQBQ&biw=1599&bih=560&dpr=2.15#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:a8c06d8e,vid:vMKn3BBaC_U,st:0

[Nat]

@lawrence well you’ve got a couple of issues…

1 – game balance, LMGs went up to RoF 4 in v2 because they werent in use
2 – time frame – the RoF is not actual but game balance slant on effectiveness
3- Role – just because something isnt a X weapon in the view of modern eyes doesnt mean it wasnt used in that role… examples would be the MG43 or the US M1919 used as both an LMG & an MMG … the Bren was (in several forms) used until 1990s (mid 00s for the reserve) having been rechamberd to 7.62…  It is a different beast and used differently to beltfed weapons…

[Stuart Harrison]

@ Lawrence,

“I will continue to quibble about the sustained firepower of multiple linked belts vs. continual mag changes though….especially when firing suppression or final protective fires.”

I would have to ask if you’re still on the divide between the Bren as a WW2 LMG, or the divide between the Bren and a post war GPMG/WW2 MMG? Which of it’s contemporaries was that even an option for other than possibly the MG34/MG42 which generally used non-disintegrating link belts (not a simple matter to join belts), and already get an additional shot over their peers. Most other LMGs in the period are either magazine fed, lack a changeable barrel, or both. The Bren is actually at the mid to higher end of WW2 LMGs, nowhere near the bottom.

[L.T. Russell]

Howdy Stuart!  Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner, but I prepared a big, long reply and something went wrong.  Either I posted it wrong or it was deleted, but that really bummed me out….

I did some research on the Bren and apparently the 100 round drum was only meant for anti-aircraft fire, using the extended AA sights, because the big drum totally obscured the weapons intrinsic sights….

IIRC, the MG34 and MG42 were the world’s first actual General Purpose MGs and the only true GPMGs in WWII.  No one else in the west had one until the Belgian FNMAG and the US M60 in the 1950s.  The Browning 1919s could only be fired from tripods and so were only MMGs, whether air or water cooled, until the advent of the 1919A6, which didn’t get general issue until the Korean War….

IMHO, Brens, BARs, Lewis guns, Degtyaryovs, FM 24/29s, ZB27s, etc, etc, since they’re not belt-fed, are just automatic rifles….

True you can stick a Bren on a tripod, put that doesn’t make it an MMG.  Heck, an MG34 or 42 in the MMG role could have a tripod, T & E, telescopic sight, periscope sight, remote-firing handles, cyclic rates 2 to 3 times higher than anyone else’s MGs, etc….

I don’t have personal experience with non-disintegrating metallic belts.  I carried an M60 for two years, but I can’t imagine it’s that hard to link belts together….

 

[Stuart Harrison]

Non disintegrating link for the MG 34/42:

Yes, it could be linked together to form longer belts, but it’s not a simple task in the field.

“IMHO, Brens, BARs, Lewis guns, Degtyaryovs, FM 24/29s, ZB27s, etc, etc, since they’re not belt-fed, are just automatic rifles….” We’re going to have to disagree on your conclusion. The BAR is the only automatic rifle in this game. Most of the rest benefit significantly from being crew served and were employed as light machine guns by their respective armies in WW2. Whether the Bren should be considered an MMG isn’t under debate – that was purely to illustrate that it could, in a pinch, step UP a role, not that it should be an in game option.

I’ve used a BAR equivalent weapon, the L2A1 (derived from the FN FAL/SLR with 30 round magazines) and it’s not even in the same ball park as using a Bren. Even without a loader the Bren lends itself to much faster magazine changes, allowing a higher rate of fire, and the ability to quickly change barrels allows you to maintain that rate for longer.

My first battalion posting was as No2 gunner in a rifle section, and we were using the Bren as an alternate weapon with the Mag58. There was very little difference in the amount of rounds the gunner could put down range with each weapon (once he got me up to speed as his loader), but the Bren meant a lot more work for the No2 (and at times the section 2IC).

[L.T. Russell]

Howdy again Stuart!  My continuing thanks for your patient and informed replies.  I agree with your point; “…benefit significantly from being crew served and were employed as light machine guns by their respective armies…”, however I’ll continue to quibble that they’re not much better than having a BAR with a loader, as opposed to being actual belt-fed MGs.  That’s just me being stubborn, sticking to my guns, pun intended….

I do believe we’ve beat this subject to death and Warlord Games does address the superiority of the German GPMGs by granting them an extra die.  A fair compromise, in the interest of playability, IMO….

One a different note, how do you feel about LMGs, MMGs and HMGs all having the same range in the games?

I served on both M60 and M2 crews while I was in the USMC.  I was an assistant MG instructor in the Army Reserve and as previously mentioned, I carried an M60 for two years in the National Guard.  By the time the M249 SAW came out I was already a Platoon Sergeant, so I have no experience carrying one of those.  The M240Bravo became common after I’d already retired from the military.  I’ve familiarization-fired a lot of stuff, including the MG42, STG45, Thompson, Grease Gun, BAR, AKMS, M2 Carbine, MP5, MP10, BM12, etc, etc.  The one chance I had to fire a Bren, it was broken that day….  : (

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by L.T. Russell. Reason: Grammar error

[Stuart Harrison]

“One a different note, how do you feel about LMGs, MMGs and HMGs all having the same range in the games?”

Machine gun ranges are a problem, partly due to attempting to fix LMGs being underpowered without changing the points from first edition, and partly because of compression on a 4’x6′ table with heavy artillery on the same table as small arms.

First edition, the LMG was the same 30″ range as an automatic rifle (probably fair as both are rifle cartridges fired from a bipod), MMGs were the current 36″, as were HMGs (probably short changed with that). Go up another 12″ and you’re at light automatic cannon and light AT gun range.

[coljacksimpson57]

One solution would be to adjust the ranges to LMG: 30″, MMG: 36″ & HMG 42″.  Having commanded a scout unit that had both MMG (M60) & HMG (M2 HB), I can tell you that the HMG’s longer effective range was very real and mattered.  On the other hand, the developers often simplify things for game-play purposes – such as giving all rifles the same range.  In reality the M1 carbine did not have near the effective range of the M1 rifle.

[L.T. Russell]

That seems like a fair spread of ranges coljack.  If I was an American player, I’d expect to be getting a little more outa my M2s….

There’s also the firepower of the semiauto rifles.  I’d HATE to be the guy with a 98K, trading shots with either of the M1s….but too much detail, start losing playability.  That be the kinda detail in a squad-level game, with 1/32 scale miniatures….

[Mark G]

One aspect of the game has been puzzling me a while and feel considering how the HE mechanics work could better reflect ‘reality’ and totally change the way these are used in game. This is a conversation that was started between myself and a fellow player who happened to have severed in the RA, when I asked them how the use of HE relates to his experience.

My argument is – when using smoke it either hits the target you are aiming at or misses by a distance and in a certain direction as it has to come down somewhere.

Why then when we fire HE does it either hit or effectively miss the entire table? this has to come down somewhere and should be treated in the same way as smoke, introducing the possibility that you could cause friendly damage or some other unwanted effect.

Further more apart from the benefit of LOS that a spotter gives, the experience level of a HE team has zero outcome on the result. My suggestions would be.

Having a regular spotter HE team combination would increase the first time hit from a 6 to 5 and if it misses then the distance it misses by is reduced, the rest of the normal rules remain the same. (Veteran would reduce by a further 1).

Interested to hear others thoughts on the matter.

[Author]

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